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I want to start up a rebuilt 1725 that's been left to sit... for a long time!

Scott Rodrigues

Donation Time
Sorry, couldn't think up a cuter title.

Some back history: I have a 1725 that I had rebuilt close to a decade ago with around 20 miles on it. I took on a new job at the time where my hours were very screwy and almost around the clock at times. Family, kids, all sorts of silly excuses kept me from wrapping up on my Alpine. Days became weeks, etc... you get the idea.

I no longer work that job and I want to wrap up my car so I can drive it daily and pretty much locally. It's been parked on an incline in-between two houses on the property so the rear drum brake is stuck (took apart the brakes so I could roll the car up the hill). The motor looks neat and I don't see any damaged, frayed wires either under the dash or in the motor. I'll post pics in a sec.

I've called around some shops and they either have never worked on a Sunbeam or have LBC knowledge but don't seem too keen or all that interested in working on my car. I thought about it and I'd like to say screw it and do the work myself. I am mechanically inclined and have limited knowledge in car maintenance areas but want to learn. I've watched a ton of videos on how to restart cars that have sat, on brakes, all sorts of stuff and I feel that I can do. How crazy am I?

So to start with, what steps should I follow to try and see if I can get the car running again, what kind of obstacles am I looking at and what do I need to do or not do? The rebuild was a quality build done by Carl Stirtz awhile before he retired.

I want to do this right and any help, large or small, would be greatly appreciated. I grew up loving Alpines and I feel incredibly guilty allowing mine to sit like this. I want it to live. Please help me.

Thank you all!
 

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Wayne67vert

Donation Time
I'm going thru exactly the same thing. I have removed and cleaned and reinstalled my gas tanks. I've flushed the fuel lines and fuel pump. I've changed the oil, water pump, coolant, both master cylinders, slave cylinder, and wheel cylinders. I rebuilt the calipers, changed the plugs and wires, belts and hoses including the rubber brakes hoses. I've started cleaning all the ground wires I can find. I've put in a new battery and have found some smoke in some of the wiring. I hope to have it running in a couple of days.
 

Jimjordan2

Donation Time
If I can get one started, you should be able to. I believe you're just asking about getting the engine running, not the car on the road. That's a whole different list...
Oil, Gas, Coolant. Drain all including the carb and fuel pump, gas filter, and replace. Plugs, Wires, Check points, electrical supply. Someone else want to jump in?
If ya gots gas, compression, and spark...
 

Scott Rodrigues

Donation Time
If I can get one started, you should be able to. I believe you're just asking about getting the engine running, not the car on the road. That's a whole different list...
Oil, Gas, Coolant. Drain all including the carb and fuel pump, gas filter, and replace. Plugs, Wires, Check points, electrical supply. Someone else want to jump in?
If ya gots gas, compression, and spark...

True! I'm starting with the engine and going to drain and pull the tanks but I am going to go all through the car and do the work, as much as i can myself without damaging the car.
 
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alpine_64

Donation Time
Id run some luricant down into the cylinders from the spark plug holes in the head and let it settle over night. I'd then use the crank handle ( does your car have one? Many 1725s don't) and turn the motor over by hand just to ensure the rings havent rusted to the bores.

As above all the fluids should be changed of course. I'd leave the wires and plugs for now if they look ok aa you just want to fire it up.

Another thing to consider is how extensive was your rebuild? Was it a rebore and new pistons? New bearings? If it only did 20miles thr rings are not bedded yet, the head was never heat cycled and re torque.
 

Scott Rodrigues

Donation Time
Id run some luricant down into the cylinders from the spark plug holes in the head and let it settle over night. I'd then use the crank handle ( does your car have one? Many 1725s don't) and turn the motor over by hand just to ensure the rings havent rusted to the bores.

As above all the fluids should be changed of course. I'd leave the wires and plugs for now if they look ok aa you just want to fire it up.

Another thing to consider is how extensive was your rebuild? Was it a rebore and new pistons? New bearings? If it only did 20miles thr rings are not bedded yet, the head was never heat cycled and re torque.

The rebuild was a total teardown from go. Block was machined, balanced, blueprinted, whole nine as far as the block and head are concerned. Parts we could still use (manifold, carb, etc) was reused.

I recall being told the engine was retorqued so the head gasket wouldn't blow or something like that. I might be misnembering facts (and on this one I prolly am) but I do remember being told the car was retorqued unless that's something that it needs to be driven a ton beforehand for, otherwise not....
 
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alpine_64

Donation Time
The head is best to be re'torqued at 500 and 1000miles. Not sure what the implication would be of starting the motor and heating it up for 20miles after a full teardown then leaving it... But a careful run through all fluids and startimf procedures.

When you got to start it id remove plugs and let the motor spin up to build oil psi like a first start.

Also put a gano filter in the top hose... Hopefully you had a good quality rust inhibiting coolant or the head may have corroded a bit.. The gano filter will catch any crud circulating.
 

Scott Rodrigues

Donation Time
The head is best to be re'torqued at 500 and 1000miles. Not sure what the implication would be of starting the motor and heating it up for 20miles after a full teardown then leaving it... But a careful run through all fluids and startimf procedures.

When you got to start it id remove plugs and let the motor spin up to build oil psi like a first start.

Also put a gano filter in the top hose... Hopefully you had a good quality rust inhibiting coolant or the head may have corroded a bit.. The gano filter will catch any crud circulating.

Ok, so no, it wasn't retorqued then. I don't know Alpine motors one bit, but from what I know of mine when I had it run, it would start up at a very high pitch that originally scared the poop out of me and after running for about 30 seconds the pitch would drop gradually and it would idle quietly. If I started it the next day, it would start up and idle quietly. I am new to this and I figured it was normal for it to do this because it's an older engine and because the car has a choke on it that was disabled by the DPO. Just throwing everything I know out there. Please educate me.

I used really good coolant in the radiator, I couldn't tell you if it had rust inhibitor in it, but I hope it did.

I've heard of a Gano Filter, but which top hose would I put it on and how? Sorry for the dumb questions, I just want to do this right and appreciate the responses greatly.
 

Scott Rodrigues

Donation Time
Id run some luricant down into the cylinders from the spark plug holes in the head and let it settle over night. I'd then use the crank handle ( does your car have one? Many 1725s don't) and turn the motor over by hand just to ensure the rings havent rusted to the bores.

As above all the fluids should be changed of course. I'd leave the wires and plugs for now if they look ok aa you just want to fire it up.

Another thing to consider is how extensive was your rebuild? Was it a rebore and new pistons? New bearings? If it only did 20miles thr rings are not bedded yet, the head was never heat cycled and re torque.

I don't have a crank handle :(. What can I use instead?
 

alpine_64

Donation Time
Ok..

A few things the screeching sound is not normal... Check the alignment of the belt from the fan. Assuming its a series V there will be an alternator, also check the mounting bracket they have a habbit of cracking. Could also be the bearing in the waterpump perhaps...but hard to tell without actually hearing the problem and assume this recollection is over 10 years ago for you.

Re turning over the engine by hand, if your car doesnt have a the jaw and crank handle a socket can be used of the front pulley, make sure spark plugs are out.

Re the gano filter put it in the top hose between the radiator and the thermostat housing.
 

hartmandm

Moderator
Diamond Level Sponsor
I don't have a crank handle :(. What can I use instead?

Two options. Both involve a socket on the starting jaw nut (if you still have that, or its replacement nut, if not). The original starting jaw nut is 1-5/16 and you need a fairly deep socket.
Then either you can get a wratchet directly on that socket, if you have enough clearance in front of the radiator, or add a long socket extension through the hole in the front valence, where the starting handle would have been inserted for cranking.

Maybe there are some other options, too. Don't use the fan to rotate the engine. You might damage the blades and they could later fly off when the engine is running.

Mike
 

Scott Rodrigues

Donation Time
Thank you all for the advice and list of things to do. I'm going to update this thread with each step I've done so I can get advice or hopefully someone telling NO before I do something dumb.

Someone told me today at work that I should pour Marvel down the carb to sit and lube the valves, should I do this? Could it hurt anything if I do?
 

Gordon Holsinger

Diamond Level Sponsor
Thank you all for the advice and list of things to do. I'm going to update this thread with each step I've done so I can get advice or hopefully someone telling NO before I do something dumb.

Someone told me today at work that I should pour Marvel down the carb to sit and lube the valves, should I do this? Could it hurt anything if I do?
Pull the plugs and pour marvel mystery oil into the cylinders about three teaspoons in each cylinder enough to soak the pistons let the oil penetrate into the rings
 

Warren

Bronze Level Sponsor
A Gano filter is a captive screen in a cylindrical tube the size of your radiator hose. Inside it's screen shape is like a reverse funnel mouse trap.
You can also be like the Model T guys and me and burn a little 2 cycle oil in the first gasoline mix at start up.
Not sure how that might effect new rings . It's my understanding that you can't turn over a gear driven oil pump by hand fast enough to build oil pressure." At least that is what my airplane mechanic buddy says." SBFs you can pull distributor and insert drive to spin up oil pressure with e drill. Don't feel bad I have a VW motor in car fell into same car vs family AYSO, scouting, sailing, remodel , not even on the stove let alone back burner.
PS also take heater core out of the loop as you don't want it filled with cast iron chunks either.
* Bastard Ford and other car advice given ;)
 
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Scott Rodrigues

Donation Time
Update: Pulled the plugs, numbered them and the wires from 1 to 4 (front of motor to back) The plugs were snug and I had no issue taking them out. They were kind of greasy. Here's what they look like below. The one from cylinder 2 has a gray top. Poured Marvel in and covered and taped a plastic bag over the openings and closed the hood.

There isn't anywhere on the front of the engine to socket in. Any ideas how I can turn this tomorrow and if so by how much should I turn it and in which direction?

Also, I got a Powerbuilt hand pump to take the gas out of the tanks so I can pull them this week (I'm going fuel cell, I don't care about trunk space). I spent 10 minutes pumping and no gas came out. I shined a flashlight down the gas cap 'hole' and it looks like a mountainrange in there. How do I approach this right so I can safely remove the tanks?
 

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sunalp

Diamond Level Sponsor
On your crank pulley, the bolt in there has the ears on it for a starter crank handle. Do you have one?
If not, you have the plugs out and you should be able to turn the engine over using the fan. Tighten your
fan belt so it doesn't slip and you should be able to spin the engine with that with not too much effort.
That should work as long as your engine hasn't seized. That should get the Marvels moving in the cylinders
as well.

As far as the tanks go, after sitting as long as that car has, you probably have a lot of sludge in the tank.
What you can do is put a pan under the car where the fuel line attaches to the cross pipe and take the
gas line off. You may get a little smelly gas on you, so wear nitrile gloves and old clothes. You should be able
to drain what's in there and then remove the tanks. A messy job, but not overly complicated.

Cheers!
Steve
 

Scott Rodrigues

Donation Time
On your crank pulley, the bolt in there has the ears on it for a starter crank handle. Do you have one?
If not, you have the plugs out and you should be able to turn the engine over using the fan. Tighten your
fan belt so it doesn't slip and you should be able to spin the engine with that with not too much effort.
That should work as long as your engine hasn't seized. That should get the Marvels moving in the cylinders
as well.

As far as the tanks go, after sitting as long as that car has, you probably have a lot of sludge in the tank.
What you can do is put a pan under the car where the fuel line attaches to the cross pipe and take the
gas line off. You may get a little smelly gas on you, so wear nitrile gloves and old clothes. You should be able
to drain what's in there and then remove the tanks. A messy job, but not overly complicated.

Cheers!
Steve

I don't have a crank :(. Should I try to turn the fan now or should I let Marvel sit in there first? If I turn it, which direction am I turning it in if in facing the engine or does it matter?
 

Wayne67vert

Donation Time
standing in front of the engine it turns clockwise. Look at the fan and how it turns to pull air through the radiator.
 

RootesRooter

Donation Time
The 1-5/16" slotted bolt may have been replaced with a later, standard flat-headed bolt (same size). You won't need a deep socket for that, and you may be able to turn the engine with a 1/2"-drive ratchet without skinning your knuckles on the radiator. From the front, clockwise.

Sunalp said to try to turn the engine with the fan blade if the plugs are out. If you do this (I don't recommend it), use a minimal amount of effort. 4-blade fans are notoriously brittle. I've put two blades through the hood. If the engine doesn't budge right away, back off and find the right socket. Remember, you're just trying to gently coax it loose if the rings have started to rust to the cylinder walls. And DO let the Marvel oil sit overnight and have a chance to penetrate.
 
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