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Historic naval recreation

mikephillips

Donation Time
For those interested in sailing, the French have completed a replica of the frigate L’Hermione. The original dated to the late 1700s ane was used to transport Lafayette to the then colonies during the Revolutionary War. The British helped in this endeavor by supplying detailed plans made of a captured sister ship.

While I do not advocate reigniting the Napoleonic wars, with this ship and the replica HMS Rose, it would be possible to stage an event that hasn't been seen in nearly 200 years, two frigates in pretend combat. Wonder if it will ever come to pass??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CCEYGC5K-s&feature=player_embedded
 

Eleven

Platinum Level Sponsor
Given the price of gas from time to time...
The Royal Navy loved French frigates. The British had a design tendency that stressed strength and durability while the French were fast, great sailors and a little fragile in combat. Overall, I think the RN preferred the French designs, however. One reason may have been that a Frigate Captain, could obtain a nice income from capturing and selling off ships, cargo and such from the enemy. A French designed ship was faster and a better sailor!!

Thanks for sharing, very cool.
 

DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
Best of my Memory....

While I was stationed in Bermuda 1959-61 we had a vistor that was most impressive.

As I recall a Russian 4 Mast Schooner arrived and I believe it was about the time of the races from the states arriving.

I got to board for a few minutes. But was not allowed to photo.

I still have some 35MM and 8mm film somewhere that I made departing and walking around the waterfront somewhere in my stuff.

It was a very beautiful ship.
 

Nickodell

Donation Time
It was the habit, in naval battles of the sailing-ship era, to capture enemy ships if possible, as opposed to sinking them. A prize is of no value if it's at the bottom of the sea. The RN captured a lot of French ships, not only frigates but also capital ships, called "ships of the line." It was considered inviting a bad fate to rename a ship, so many of the British warships, even under Adm. Nelson's command, carried French names. E.g. the Tonnant (French for "thunder") which Nelson's fleet captured at the Battle of the Nile, served as HMS Tonnant and fought against her late owners at Trafalgar - and at the Battle of Chesapeake Bay in the War of 1812. It was on HMS Tonnant that Francis Scott Key wrote "The Star Bangled Spanner" (English joke.)
.
Some others: Assure, Espérance d'Angleterre (ironic, that; it means "Hope of England"), Férmé, Modéré, Prompt, Superbe, Triton, Falcon. And that's just 1702-3.

Probably the best-known French ship captured and serving in the RN was the Téméraire, a 98-gun ship of the line that also played a distinguished part at Trafalgar, the famous battle between the British and combined French and Spanish fleets. Had Britain lost, she would certainly have been invaded by Napoleon' army and I would have grown up eating garlic, snails and frog's legs. The capture of each others' ships resulted in the bizarre occasions of the same name ship fighting on opposite sides, as the nation losing a ship would use the same name on a newly-built one. At Trafalgar, for example, Swiftsure and Neptune were each in both the British and French fleets.

Always known to her crew as the Fighting Téméraire, the famous ship is depicted in a famous painting by English artist Turner: "The fighting Téméraire tugged to her last berth to be broken up, 1838." The painting hangs in the National Gallery in London, and shows a little side-paddle tug, black smoke belching from its stack, pulling the once-proud fighting ship to the breakers. It was voted the nation's favorite painting in a 2005 poll.
 
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mikephillips

Donation Time
Without the need to worry over mechanical systems like 20th century and on ships bringing an enemy vessel into the fleet was mostly woodwork type repairs.

I've read too that French ships were considered better sailers than British ships due to their finer lines, but they were also considered more delicate due to lighter construction.
 

Nickodell

Donation Time
There wasn't much to choose between them. Naval architecture was not the province of any one nation, so all the great sea powers, Britain, France, Holland, Spain and Portugal followed the same principles; there were no secrets. The big difference was that Britain, being an island dependent on control of the sea for its very survival (and to expand its empire), had a generally higher standard of quality of naval officer, who usually began his careers as a midshipman at the age of 12 or 13 and rose through the ranks based on experience, courage, professionalism and passing rigorous written and practical examinations. (True; for the topmost ranks, fleet admirals, political influence became important.)

The RN also insisted on constant training in seamanship and gunnery, so that the British ships could more often than not outmaneuver their enemies' vessels, and the constant gunnery training meant that they could also load and fire fast enough to deliver three broadsides to a Spanish or French ship's one.
 

mikephillips

Donation Time
Very true that the RN was the much more professional force, particularly during the years of the Napoleonic wars when the blockade confined the French navy mostly to port and the officer corps hadn't really recovered from the purges of the revolution, neither of which helped them as a whole match against the British.

But nothing quite like the look of a sailing warship with every stitch of sail spread running before the wind.
 

Nickodell

Donation Time
What is incredible is that virtually all the seamen in the RN were either "impressed men" (captured ashore by a roving band of sailors under the command of a midshipman or junior lieutenant, brought to the ship and told that this was his home for several years), convicts given the choice of prison or joining the army or navy, and desperate, starving men who turned to the Navy as the only means of survival.

Turning this band of misfits into the best crews on the seas was due to rigid discipline and constant training. Punishments included flogging for the slightest insubordination. The order would go out "all hands to the quarter deck to witness flogging." The Master-at-Arms (the senior of a team of non-seamen responsible for discipline) or a senior crewman would administer the lashing; if he tried to go lightly the order from the captain would be "lay on with a will or you'll change places with him." There was keel-hauling (being pulled by rope from one side of the ship, under the keel [itself festooned with limpets and barnacles] and up the other side), or - for the most serious crimes, like desertion or striking an officer - "flogging round the fleet" (being given maybe 20 lashes on one ship, rowed over to the next for it to be repeated, etc.) which few survived.

Add to this life below decks in cramped quarters (the average height to deckhead - ceiling to landlubbers - was about 5'6"), a diet of salt pork and biscuits - apples, pears, green vegetables and potatoes were loaded before sailing, but none would survive weeks at sea, and bullying, especially by older midshipmen who had not advanced in rank because of constantly failing examinations.

They did, however, suffer much less from scurvy - see later.

One cohesive factor that made them the best crews in the world was loyalty and patriotism. They were constantly told that they were all that stood between their homeland and the French, Spaniards, Danes and Dutch.

Trivia:
(stop me if you've heard this before.) Do you know the origin of "son of a gun"? It's used as a compliment or friendly greeting today, but in the past was an insult. Some captains allowed a few wives and even prostitutes to go on voyages with the crews, probably to reduce homosexuality, which was regarded as destructive to discipline and fighting spirit, and homosexual rape. Not infrequently the result was a pregnancy. The baby would be born on the gun deck, hence the name.

How about tottering? Some sailors illegally stored their daily tot of rum in some container, and then had a blast by drinking it all at once, resulting in being unsteady on their feet.

Grog? When Admiral Vernon took over the fleet, one of his first rules was that the daily tot had to be diluted 2:1 water to rum, possibly to reduce the frequency of the above. Vernon was known as "Old Grog," due to the cape of grogram he wore, and the pissed-off sailors used the term for the diluted drink.

The "Nelson [or Nelsonian] Touch." During the Battle of Copenhagen (1801) Adm. Nelson disagreed with the less adventurous tactics of his superior, Adm. Sir Hyde Parker. His squadron was closer to the Danish fleet and had a better view of an opportunity to defeat it. When his signalman, Foley, said that they had received a flag signal from Parker to withdraw, Nelson put his telescope to the eye that he had lost in a previous battle and said "Hmm. You know, Foley, I have only one eye, and I have the right to be blind sometimes. I see no such signal," and ordered an attack, managing to cross the enemy fleet's T and defeat them. This added the word "Nelsonian" and the phrase "turning a blind eye" - i.e. pretending not to have received an order - to the English language.

Crossing the T. Where one fleet manoeuvers to pass in line ahead across the van (head) of the enemy fleet, allowing them to fire a series of broadsides with little or no return fire.

Holding the Wind Gauge. This doesn't mean using an anemometer. A ship, or fleet, upwind of another, has the choice of attacking or holding off, while the ship or fleet on the lee (downwind) can only stay put or retreat. Generally, crossing the T requires holding the wind gauge.

Limeys. The most debilitating disease to affect crews on long voyages was scurvy, a disease caused by lack of vitamin C, itself due to the lack of vegetables or fruit in their diet. In some cases, one third or more of the crew would be stricken, and many would die.

Nobody knew anything about vitamins before the late 19th century, of course, but it was discovered that ships stationed in the West Indies almost never had problems with the disease. An Admiralty inquiry found that the crews were in the habit of flavoring their daily grog with the juice of limes, which were indiginous to the islands, and taking kegs of the stuff on voyages. The Admiralty ordered lime juice to be distributed throughout the fleet in all parts of the world, and a mandatory dose each day. When Americans heard about this pansy way of drinking spirits, they evolved the epithet Limeys to describe RN crews.

Rigid discipline, intense training, patriotism and lime juice. Rule Britannia for 300 years.
 

DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
Yep! Another great by Nick O'

Thanks Nick for another great lesson in our history!

DanR
 

Eleven

Platinum Level Sponsor
I read a history of the Royal Navy a bit ago and one thing that the author said was that, while the life of the sailor was tough and the discipline rigid with flogging and such, it was not necessarily a nightmare and in reality equal to or better than what a person of the lowest social order was experiencing on land! They had food, however bad it was, a place and a purpose. Experienced sailors often stayed in. He also said that as with any military, the Royal Navy had it's share of martinets and sociopaths that were cruel and abused their crews terribly, the RN was actually pretty good as sussing these types out and getting rid of them. I believe much of this because if people know the rules and what to expect and especially if they are with a winner, they will adapt to most anything.
 

Nickodell

Donation Time
There was the additional inducement in the prospect of prize money, if your ship captured an enemy cargo or treasure vessel. The RN was surprisingly generous in distributing the booty to all hands, from the captain to the lowest seaman.

Of course, the officers got the most, and the amount distributed to the other hands varied according to pay grade, but occasionally even ordinary seamen got enough if their ship captured a treasure ship, such as a Spanish one returning from the New World loaded with gold, to buy himself out of the service, or even set himself up in business like buying an inn. (However, a lot of them squandered it on booze, slow horses and fast women.)
 
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