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Help!

Nickodell

Nickodell

Donation Time
Matilda, after a quarter century of giving me pleasure, has let me down. [For those not familiar with the name Matilda is my 1967 SV).

Took her out yesterday on a beautiful spring day, drove to the supermarket [I'm doing the grocery shopping as my wife just got home from having a knee replaced, and is confined to bed]. All seemed well, plenty of power, great exhaust note, oil 40psi. Switched off, and the engine stopped normally. Got the groceries, came back, turned the key and just a click from the starter solenoid. "Hmm," I thought, "I know the battery is fully charged. Must be a bad connection." Cinched up all the terminals from battery to starter, still just that click.

Luckily, I was parked on a hill, so I let her coast up to about 10mph and let the clutch out, in 3rd. gear. And my nose hit the steering wheel as the rear wheels locked up. Tried it again in 2nd (this time with seat belt on). Same result. The engine is locked. As I say, when switched off it stopped normally, i.e. no squeaks, and it turned for a few seconds after the ign. was cut.

I've had an engine seize before when a dumb garage that did a hose job on a Chevy forgot to refill with coolant, but that was while running.

Since there was just that solenoid click, and no sound of the Bendix trying to engage, I'm hoping that it's just the starter stuck in gear. What do you think?
 
sunbeam74

sunbeam74

Silver Level Sponsor
Nick,

I suppose it could be the bendix. Can you loosen the bolts holding the starter?

Just as a quick check....Do you have it at home now? Could you remove the spark plugs? My thought, and this is just a shot in the dark, is a head gasket let go and filled one of the cylinders with coolant. I may be way off base but the solid locked motor after it had stopped is an odd one.

Good luck. If I can think of anything else I will write.

Steve
 
R

RootesRacer

Donation Time
Engine could be hydro-locked, IE coolant down one or more cyls.

This could have happened anytime after the motor stopped.
 
Nickodell

Nickodell

Donation Time
Thanks, guys. I'll try to have a look tomorrow, starting with taking the plugs out. May not get to it though, being nursmaid, cook and general factotum.
 
Nickodell

Nickodell

Donation Time
Update. Rocked Matilda back and forth in top gear, and with a "clunk" the Bendix cog came off the flywheel and the car freewheeled. "Great," I thought. "Just a starter problem." But putting it back in gear and trying to move it wouldn't budge the engine; neither would the starter. Tomorrow, trying to discover why it's locked.
 
puff4

puff4

Platinum Level Sponsor
Pull the stater - then you cah get to the flywheel and see if something's gone wonky in there.
 
skywords

skywords

Donation Time
Hi Nick
Boy sorry to hear that, especially the wife's knee I hope she will be up and about soon.
As far as the engine not starting when you let the clutch out these cars have a fair amount of compression. I have had mine quit while coming to a stop sign and I will let the clutch out and it will not have enough inertia to do the trick. Pull the plugs if you think the engine is locked. Good Luck
 
Jim E

Jim E

Donation Time
Nick,
Think I would pull the plugs and rock it in gear to see if it pumps water out, straight away. If it does would roll the car to get most out then spin it on the starter to pump it dry then put some WD or some such down the wet holes. With the plugs out the starter might turn it over even full of water but it would make a huge mess which is why I would roll the car in gear to clear the most of it out. Also because if this is the problem would want to know before removing the starter cause you will want to spin it on the starter to dry things. The bores will rust pretty fast with water in them and you could stick a ring if it sits too long. You maybe should also look at the oil and see if it has water in it.
 
65beam

65beam

Donation Time
help

nick,
this may sound like it's way off in left field somewhere , but this actually happened to me . we were on our way to the united at williamburg back in the early 80's . we stopped and then the car would not turn over. we had another car on the trailer so we loaded the series 5 up and went on . some of the best sunbeam minds of the time pulled their hair out trying to figure it out .turned out the alternator had locked up and the belt was too tight to let the motor turn over . changed it out and that motor is still in use .
 
puff4

puff4

Platinum Level Sponsor
Yeah, the alternator or water pump is definitely possible... as is something going loose in the bell housing and similarly jamming the motor. Particularly, if you were running the motor and the alternator bearings were burning out and getting *very* hot (read: melting), once you stopped that engine and let it cool they could well have seized entirely.

I'd bet good money that it's not water in a cylinder... I think it's something mechanical stopping movement. But hey, pulling the plugs is easy, so give it a look. Next, pull the belt.

However, this bit does not make sense to me...
Update. Rocked Matilda back and forth in top gear, and with a "clunk" the Bendix cog came off the flywheel and the car freewheeled. "Great," I thought. "Just a starter problem." But putting it back in gear and trying to move it wouldn't budge the engine; neither would the starter.
Click to expand...

So.. if it was in gear when you rocked it, and then you hear a 'clunk' and it now freewheels, was it still in gear? And if so, how was it able to 'freewheel' with the engine still stuck? ...and why did you have to put it back into gear if it already was *in* gear? Sounds more like it popped out of gear rather than the bendix coming lose.
 
Nickodell

Nickodell

Donation Time
Sorry, that was ambiguous. After I got the Bendix loose, the car freewheeled out of gear, allowing me to push it out of the garage to try to turn the engine over by putting the gear in Top (wheels turn fast, engine turns slow, bags of torque). No dice. I hadn't thought of the alt. or w. pump, but I don't think the belt could have held back the force of the car. I got it up to about 10 mph and popped the clutch in Top. Result: rubber streaks on the driveway.

Taking the plugs out tomorrow; will keep you posted. Maybe it's the tranny, not the engine.
 
Nickodell

Nickodell

Donation Time
Took the plugs out today and the engine spun freely on the starter. Fluid lock? But nothing came out of the plug holes. Put the plugs back in and the engine purred like a pussy.

Now I'm kicking myself, because I should have tried the starter one last time before taking the plugs out. If it ran OK it would suggest that whatever was in one of the cylinders had drained down past the rings since Sunday.

In any case, the oil, coolant and hydro levels were up to the mark, so I can't imagine what it could have been.

Now I'm scared that it might occur again while I'm driving. I don't fancy having the rear wheels suddenly lock up at 50 mph before I can get the clutch down, or wreck the tranny or UJs.

Mysterious.
 
N

norville

Donation Time
were any of the plugs very clean? suggesting coolant in the cylinder?

I think it was your starter and to much compression on the engine? did you try to catch it in gear now that it's freed up?

glad you got it going...


bob
 
Nickodell

Nickodell

Donation Time
All the plugs looked like the optimum "light, chocolate-brown deposit." None was oily or wet. And yes, dropping the clutch in top while coasting down the driveway turned the engine fine.

I'd like to think too much compression, but the engine has umpteen miles on it, and the compression gauge readings are 142, 140, 120, 144, (the same as they were a year ago), which pretty much rules out a compression problem. And that still wouldn't account for two streaks of rubber on the road the first time we tried to coast-start it on Sunday, even if the compression were through the roof.

Nothing makes any sense.
 
R

RootesRacer

Donation Time
Jay Laifman had a situation some years back where his trans locked up at speed and messed a bunch of stuff up IIRC.


Jay?????
 
N

norville

Donation Time
Does your oil small like gas? did you pull the filler cap to see if it looks like chocolate milk?

I'm running out of ideas ...

bob
 
Nickodell

Nickodell

Donation Time
I checked the oil the day it all happened, and it looked as if it had just come out of the can.
Started fine today. I'm out of ideas, too.
 
B

bluoval

Donation Time
my 2cents worth

Nick It sounds to me that your starter took a crap and seized in the engaged position then when you tried to push start it was still locked up with the fly wheel. then it finaly broke free alowing the engine to turn over without the starter. I would check the starter first. Earl bluoval
 
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