Harrington LM roof

[g.boat]

Gents,

I appreciate that the roof of the Harrington is glassfibre bonded to the metal structure of an alpine but just how is it bonded? I imagined that there was a downwards overlap of glassfibre onto the metal lower rear wing but in trying to repair some damage to the rear wing of my car it appears to be a metal type filler with no apprant glassfibre in it.

All info gratefully ingested so I can repair it properly.

Andy

 

[jumpinjan]

Andy,
That metallized filler is just that, a filler material. The roof/body seam will follow the chrome strip (the chrome strip is atop of the seam location) and is a "flange" mating. That is, the metal body was hammered to have an inwards flange (about 1" wide) and that mates to the fiber top which also has a flange. The body & top are mated and "glued" & bolted (10-32 machine screws) together. The metallized filler (aluminum powder & epoxy plast is assumed) is applied to level out the seam area. There could be an overlap (due to a purposeful misalignment) that you mention, but it is just the feathering out of the filler, down from the seam.
I'm very keen on the Lemans as Ian & I are restoring three Lemans bodies presently.
Jan

 

[65beam]

lemans roof

jan,
my moonstone car has a combo of bolts and screws holding the roof on and the original filler covered a lot of the rear fender.so i wonder if anything was standard ? there are a lot of differences between my two cars.

 

[jumpinjan]

Bob,
All three had 10-32 machine screws, nothing else. They are very difficult to get on and off. They do help a lot in alignment, but I think that's about all. The epoxy that we use is the primary fastening method and it will wold as well as any screws.
That filler is very hard stuff, and the Harrington body men must have developed some awesome arm muscles.

 

[65beam]

lemans roof

jan,
i know what i have ,so it comes back to one thing.this is not the first time i have disagreed with your opinion and i am a firm believer in what i took out of my car .these cars were not built on a regular production line and i have always thought that no two cars were the same .when i set the top back on my car,i 'll probably use the same bolts thru out .the shop that i use says by the time we're ready to do this he'll make a decision on how he seals the two sections together .

 

[jumpinjan]

Bob,
I'll make a recommendation when you mate the top & body together. Apply the Epoxy glue when you have most of the screws in place and then apply the glue to the seam from the outside and push it in the seam where there is a gap. We applied the epoxy first and was running out of time (to get all the screws in) when the epoxy was starting to harden.

 

[g.boat]

Gents,

The fact that its ogiginal is good news for me. I thought I'd bought a bodged repair. By the sounds of it there is no structural element to it and can fill it with a modern filler (Isopon P38 or similar).

Jan,

You're right the crack is along the line of the side trim. It must have been there a while as water has got behind the filler and caused it to blow out.

Andy

 

[65beam]

lemans roof

jan,
are you going to use plywood to make new wood braces that run from the B post to the rear of the top or are you going to make them out of something else ? i would like to talk with you about this .jean and i will tell you what we found in the structure of the moonstone car .

 

[jumpinjan]

Bob,
I'll make new ones if I think they need replacement. From what I seen of the original pieces, probably not, I'll reuse the old ones. However, the spare wheel well cover will need new plywood. They delaminate pretty easily from a leaky hatch.
The last Lemans body (the third one) will be going to the dippers soon, and then it will wait until I can get to it.
(I have a Tiger body, a Harrington body, some engines and transmissions to rebuild and the Invasion is next week....Too many projects; Too little time)
Jan

 

[65beam]

lemans roof

jan
the problem that i have with the moonstone car is that these pieces are made of plywood and it is starting to come apart. it should be easy to make ,but i would like to have them made out of a better wood .

 

[Jim E]

Maybe marine grade plywood would be the ticket, provided yu can get it in the right thickness.

 

[MikeH]

I once heard of a filler called METALL. I think it had aluminum in it. The advantage was that it stayed flexible and didn't absorb water.

 

[puff4]

Maybe marine grade plywood would be the ticket, provided yu can get it in the right thickness.

Funny enough, plywood has been used in a great many cars as floorboards. Nearly all American cars prior to 1940 had some sort of wood in the floors. And the Morgan sports car still has'em.

 

[AlpineIan]

Just picked up on this thread. Bob - Jan... All of the Le Mans roofs that I have removed have had the same type of mounting process. Bolts along the flange with a pink adheasive between the seam. Screws were then used to attach metal plates to the wood framework and the metal body. I think you guys are both right on this one, just not on the same page with description. Of course, I've only taken apart 3 Le Mans out of 250 built!

The plywood used on my LeMans was marine grade.

 

[bernd_st]

Just picked up on this thread. Bob - Jan... All of the Le Mans roofs that I have removed have had the same type of mounting process. Bolts along the flange with a pink adheasive between the seam. Screws were then used to attach metal plates to the wood framework and the metal body. I think you guys are both right on this one, just not on the same page with description. Of course, I've only taken apart 3 Le Mans out of 250 built!

The plywood used on my LeMans was marine grade.

Studied this a lot recently and also found that epoxy glue was used between the roof & body flanges (Rainer recommended to use some modern Wurth stuff). Ultimate alignment ensured by the bespoken 10/32 machine screws. P.S. good advise to put the screws first before epoxy starts to harden.
The outer gap then was appearantly flattened with metal bondo (containing alu ).
For the wood rails running along the sides they are just to give certain support to the roof especially at the lower side window line. This avoids inwards collapsing when the rather heavy windows are installed. Furthermore it makes the whole side roof area feel more rigid. Would not recommend to go without them but they can be mounted later. Of course 17mm marine grade plywood would be ideal. Remanufactured mine as well. They are laminated to the GFK top at the back.

Furthermore there should be 2 small 20mm square hardwood supports at the back just under the tailgate. They give support for the rear hatch area and allow the rear panel to bolt right on.

After all this is what holds the entire roof on the body...

Cheers

Bernd

 

[65beam]

lemans roof

i'm well aware of how the cars were built, but! no one seems to understand that our moonstone car was built the same way ,only it had some weird things such as bent over nails and screws in place of the bolts.why? i have no idea since it is a low mileage car that was parked in a garage in 1968. i bought it in the early 80's . my red car has not been taken apart,and i am the second owner of it and it has bolts. having owned many sunbeams over the years ,i have had cars with odd things on them. my series 4 is a good example .wouldn't it be great to call up harrington and ask why some idiot stuck a few nails and screws in places they didn't belong ? oh well,no wonder the british car industry went belly up!