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Hard Starting and hotter spark plugs

pruyter

Donation Time
To answer the question of Bill regarding how the secondary throttle can influence the idle:
If the secondary throttle is a little bit to far open on idle the progression holes of the secondary stage will draw fuel and air and by doing that it will influence the idle which can result in a rough idle or/and idling to high and also in high fuel consumption
You want this secondary throttle as closed as possible without a sticking throttle valve.

Regards,

Peter
 

Eleven

Platinum Level Sponsor
I found that secondary idle screw, didn't know I had one. Haven't touched it - yet. It is located on the drivers side, just inside of the stud holding the card to manifold. Quite small, points up so you need to get a small slot screwdriver from underneath the screw. It adjusts against a lever extending from the throttle. Once you see it, it is so obvious.
Forever more. I found it after your description. Not sure what will do. Love the location, right over the exhaust manifold! Thanks for your help!!
 

pruyter

Donation Time
What it will do is adjusting the throttle valve of the second stage. Ideally the valve must be at the most closed position without that the valve is sticking.
If it is more open than necessary it will affect the idle in a negative way.
 

Tim R

Silver Level Sponsor
Is that for all manifolds, including the standard Series IV, or just the recent manifold out of the UK?
RootesRooter I think that the PCV was ONLY on the Series V as standard, I am not aware of one being on the Series IVs. On the Series V it is inserted into a shared chamber that splits between all four inlets. The new UK weber manifold is absolutely superb BUT the tapping for the PCV is in inlet No 4 ONLY and that was a mistake. By blanking it off and doing away with the PCV you get the best performance.

Tim R
 

johnd

Donation Time
What it will do is adjusting the throttle valve of the second stage. Ideally the valve must be at the most closed position without that the valve is sticking.
If it is more open than necessary it will affect the idle in a negative way.

Two questions - first, if it is ideal for the valve to be closed why the need for any adjustment at all? Second - how does it come from the factory?
 

Tim R

Silver Level Sponsor
John, what Peter is saying is that it is ideal when it is as 'closed as possible' not that it should be completely closed. The adjustment on this screw is tiny. I literally turned it 1/8th of a turn and it completely changed the way that the car ran. With one of our cars the Weber came out of the box and ran perfectly as soon as it was fitted, the other needed this slight adjustment. I suspect that every car might need slight fettling of the set up to get it perfect.

Tim R
 

Eleven

Platinum Level Sponsor
Well I fooled around with the adjustment screw in question yesterday. Had to remove the carb first because the screw would not turn with the little screw driver I had. Note: If this happens to you the slot of the screw actually extends down beyond the casting. You can get a bigger driver on it that I thought. Adjusting would require the smaller one given the exhaust manifold proximity. Anyway, I marked my starting spot on the casting and then moved the screw in and out to see what it would do. One way the engine picked up rpm's and the other it didn't do much but the idle did get a bit rougher. In the end I re-centered it on my original mark and played with it a bit until it felt smoother. Can't recall the amount of adjustment I used but it did help but was not dramatic.
Since my engine is now running better than it ever has by a mile it is a reminder that it is a system. I readjusted the valves checked the timing, removed the PCV system, corrected a primary and secondary jet issue, readjusted the idle screw and now this secondary. I think no one thing did it but the biggest gain was removing the PCV.
Many thanks to all and have a safe and Happy New Years!
 

Eleven

Platinum Level Sponsor
These are the settings that Rod (rsbluenose) sent me:
Primary/Secondary

Main Jet 140/140

Air Jet 165/160


Idle Jet 60/55

Em Tubes F50/F6

Pump 50

I looked at my set up notes and found mine were all the same except I noted that my Idle Jet settings were reversed so I correct to match Rod's. I think the above is close to baseline BTW but not positive. I think my Main Jets are off a bit (140/135ish). Don't have my notes here but it is a triangulated bee-atch to get to them so left them alone!
 

nsbluenose

Silver Level Sponsor
These were not the settings on my Weber (new) when I received it. Have had this Weber 5 or 6 years and went to these setting this year. It has never started, idled or cruised as well as it did this year. It was never really bad, but wasn't quite right and this set up is working really good for me. You may get different results.
What I changed was; Main jet - from 140/135 to above, Idle Jet - from 55/50 to above. Small changes, big difference.
 

pruyter

Donation Time
The jetting for the Weber 32/36 DGV 5 A as offered as the so called Webcon conversion (sold by Alpine Innovations in the UK) has as jetting:

Main jets primary/secondary 140/135
Air correction jets primary/secondary: 165/160
Idle jets primary/secondary"52/50
Emulsion tubes primary/secondary: F6/F6
Pump: 50

It goes like a dream!

Regards,

Peter
 

Tim R

Silver Level Sponsor
The reality is that depending on what size your engine has been re-bored to, how many times the head and/or block have been skimmed and what grind you have on your camshaft you may need slightly different jetting on the 32/36 DGV. Straight out of the box it will almost certainly work better than any standard carb set up the Alpine ever came with. Book a short session on a rolling road with a Weber specialist and it will quickly be jetted perfectly for your specific engine. Fitting the AI carb (and crucially the curved manifold) is the best improvement that you will make to an Alpine. It stays, in tune, never needs adjusting, gives much smoother (and slower) tick over and better all round performance as well as returning up to 41mpg.

Tim R
 

Eleven

Platinum Level Sponsor
The reality is that depending on what size your engine has been re-bored to, how many times the head and/or block have been skimmed and what grind you have on your camshaft you may need slightly different jetting on the 32/36 DGV. Straight out of the box it will almost certainly work better than any standard carb set up the Alpine ever came with. Book a short session on a rolling road with a Weber specialist and it will quickly be jetted perfectly for your specific engine. Fitting the AI carb (and crucially the curved manifold) is the best improvement that you will make to an Alpine. It stays, in tune, never needs adjusting, gives much smoother (and slower) tick over and better all round performance as well as returning up to 41mpg.

Tim R
What is an "AI" carb and the curved manifold? The manifold I have is pretty common I think for the Weber but for efficiency, I suspect it stinks. Air goes down, takes a 90 degree turn then another 90 degree to the cylinder. Just curious.
 

pruyter

Donation Time
The so called curved manifold is the special inlet manifold which is designed in a coorporation between SAOC in the UK and Webcon.
Alpine Innovations sells the conversion as a packet in which one finds the inlet manifold, carburettor, plenum, K&N air filter, petrol filter and the linkage between carburettor and accelerator pedal.

Regards,

Peter
 

Tim R

Silver Level Sponsor
Tracy,

here are some pictures of the Alpine Innovations (AI) curved inlet manifold and induction system. We have this set up on two of our Alpines. It ensures much better fuel flow than the 'log' type that you describe. The car will fly with this fitted.

Tim R
 

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Eleven

Platinum Level Sponsor
What a great looking set up! Love the headers too. I'll bet it does fly.
Interesting, my throttle lever is just the opposite of yours. Meaning the rod leaving the firewall is bent to the right rather the left as yours is. I bought and returned a lever from Sunbeam Specialties and could not understand why it went that way. Looked at my carb to see if the throttle was just put in backwards but it did not fit turned over. Tried to reverse everything but it just would not work. I was looking for a linkage because I bodged mine and never liked it. I have a better set up now but am baffled by the difference. Isn't that a deal...
You've done a masterful job with your car Tim; well done!
 

Tim R

Silver Level Sponsor
Tracy,
The linkage on our cars came as part of the set up from Alpine Innovations. It is rose jointed and very high quality. You can easily adjust it so that you get perfect throttle response. When you accelerate hard and both chokes open wide the induction noise is superb!

Tim R
 
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