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Gearbox removal SV

Derek

Donation Time
I hearby add my name to the list of people who cannot search our site.

In any case I have purchased (last week) one of Jeff H's OD transmissions :D and plan on istalling it in the SV. I have gone through the WSM and reviewed the process, my questions are;

1) is all of the engine jacking and lowering necessary for the removal of the gearbox or can it clear without it.

2) What are the unmentioned pitfalls

3) I have Jeff's wiring diagram (plus the WSM) it looks straight forward, is it?

4) I'll be doing this in my garage and don't have a lift, how high do I need to get the car to make this a reasonable task

Thanks Derek
 

Eleven

Platinum Level Sponsor
Get a trans jack, Harbor Freight has a low one that is cheap and works. Make sure you support the car with good stands and more if possible, You can do this with the car on stands. Clear anything that can obstruct or get damaged when tilting the motor and loosen the motor mounts. Drop the exhaust. Suppport the motor with a car jack or other adjustable item, unbolt the cross member, unbolt the trans, allow the motor to tilt alittle but not enough to hit the firewall and the trans will drop on your head as neat as neat can be. To reinstall you do need a good tilt to the motor to get the trans past the tunnel. The trans jack works pretty well here. No big tricks, pretty straight forward, not to say that it is not a triangulated b**ch but mostly dirt and strain.
 

alpine_64

Donation Time
Derek,

You do have to get the car quite high and the motor very high to go out through the topas a complete unit, you could drop the trans/engine as a unit i guess, but then you will have to put in that

some warnings.. remember to take the shifter out before dropping the engine trans (dont ask!)

Use an enigne balance bar.. buy one if you cant borrow.. it makes the job MUCH easier.. i removed without it.. i used one to reinstall.. it literaly saved me hours.

Here are some pictures of the removal and install and there is a thread

http://good-times.webshots.com/album/567333862WEiBKr






More pics:

http://community.webshots.com/album/567333862WEiBKr?start=48
http://community.webshots.com/album/567333862WEiBKr?start=60
http://community.webshots.com/album/567333862WEiBKr?start=72
 

65beam

Donation Time
gear box removal

or do what i now do. call our two 20 somethings and grab a seat at the table and let them worry with it. they seem to be able to pull one real quick.
 

Derek

Donation Time
Oh joy, Micheal I note that you pulled the whole engine/trans as a unit in you photos. Is this easier than just dropping the trans ?

Derek
 

alpine_64

Donation Time
Oh joy, Micheal I note that you pulled the whole engine/trans as a unit in you photos. Is this easier than just dropping the trans ?

Derek

Derek,

You can just drop the trans, but if you are not doing it on a car lift its a b&$%^rd of a job.. lots of wriggling and pulling with the car a few inches from your face. It will be a pain to put it back on to, the alignment of the shaft is not fun while under the car.

I was installing an OD in the trans swap but pulled the whole lot as while the box is being swapped you may as well tackle other bits or make improvements. Replace the clutch, in my case a balanced and modifed flywheel and cover plate, cleaned up everything replaced bolts etc..

Its also very easy to align everything when out of the car then place it back in as a unit.. if you search the "alpine resurrection" thread you can read the progress i went through..

Its not a hard job.. just be pateint and methodical.. and be careful of your paint. I once again can not stress enough the vlaue of a balance bar.. I wish i had used one to remove it.. the ease at which you cam adjust the picth, and it requires you to move the car and hoist round much less as it gioves you so much control over the engine angle.

Oh and while i know people do this solo.. its much easier with a friend..
 

Alpine 1789

SAOCA President
Diamond Level Sponsor
I won't answer for Michael, but this has been discussed here before and there are supporters on both sides, with a possible edge for removing everything. I've done it both ways and think it is a hair quicker to just pull the tranny. On the other hand, our engines generally need TLC and this is a good time to do things like replace engine mounts, clean up leaks, etc. I will warn you though, this can lead to a 'ton of might as wells'. I posted a similar question on this site's predecessor about 8 years ago and ended up with a new cam, Weber carb, and a few other modifications. And I have never regretted it for a moment. :D
 

RootesRich

Donation Time
If you're just going to drop the tranny, do yourself a HUGE favor and buy some long bolts to use as alignment rods when mating the tranny to the engine.
Mine are about a foot long and I place them on either side of the engine block. Line the bellhousing with the corresponding bolts and it'll slide into place.
 

Tom H

Platinum Level Sponsor
One thing to note that is not mentioned in the WSM: Be sure to note where the tapered, shouldered, bolt is installed. This bolt is intended as a guide bolt, and should be located about 180 degrees from the permanent guide pin near the starter. With the combo of that short permanent one and the shouldered bolt you can be assured that the bell housing and block are properly aligned. When I installed my motor - with the tranny already in the car- I was able to simply pull the block and tranny together using the standard bolts - but only by virtue of the two alignment devices. Here's a couple threads about the bolt. A lot of people miss the significance of that bolt:

http://www.sunbeamalpine.org/forum/showthread.php?t=11372

http://www.sunbeamalpine.org/forum/showthread.php?t=13549

Tom
 

AlsPine

Donation Time
Derek,
In the long reaching past, (1969 ish and at other times) I pulled the transmission from underneath the Alpine. Need to put it on tall jack stands. Then do the usual things, drain oil, pull drive shaft, and pull the tail pipe out from the "Y" or it may be easier to pull the down pipe from the exhaust manifold as you may not be able to separate the tail pipe from the "Y", (On my '62, it had headers, so I pulled the intake,and headers off from the head. You will just make the call on this part of the process when you are doing it). Disconnect clutch line and fuel line at the pump (be sure to plug the fuel line), upper radiator hose, don't recall if I had to remove the lower one. throttle linkage and remove the shift lever. Support the transmission at the tail shaft and remove the transmission cross support. Have a friend hold a piece of 1/4" plywood at the back of the valve cover while you let down the jack that is supporting the tail of the transmission. The valve cover will come to rest on the wood against the fire wall. Now the engine will be tilted back with the tail of the transmission pointing down. Support the bell housing with the floor jack from the front of the car and remove the starter and then the bell housing bolts. Lower that jack a little and let the transmission slide back until the input shaft clears the pressure plate then lower the jack down and slide the transmission out from under the car.
Reverse the process to install. As stated in another post, use 2 long bolts as guides when installing.
When you have it this far apart, replace the clutch disk and inspect the fly wheel and pressure plate and service as needed. The throw out bearing should be replaced also.
It is very important to inspect the pilot bushing in the rear of the crankshaft. Expect it to need replacing. You don't want to damage the transmission's input shaft bearing because of a bad pilot bushing. Sunbeam Specialties has them for about $17.

Well, this is the way I always did it. Hope this helps.
 

Jay Laifman

Donation Time
I've done it both ways. I agree it might be a tiny bit quicker to do it by just pulling the tranny. But, keep in mind, you really have to pretty much do everything to pull the engine other than take off the bonnet.

Also, and here is the big difference, when putting that new OD tranny in, IT'S HEAVY. You have to be prepared to basically bench press it for a good amount of time, and STILL be able to tilt it and adjust it until you get it lined up just right to push it home.

I've done it multiple times. Each time I thought I had a jack/board/long bolt system to make it work. Each time it was more of a struggle than I had hoped. Next time, I really think I'm going to pull the engine and be able to just bolt up the tranny.

Oh, and I had to loosen the motor mounts to get the engine to slide forward just enough to have the tail of the tranny clear the cross section.

I even had to take off the carbs (dual side draft Webers) so they didn't hit the steering box.

It's not really less of a pain.
 

AlsPine

Donation Time
Hi Jay,
Yes I have done it both ways also. Yes it takes 2 people under the car and 1 person running the floor jack to get it back in. You really need to make sure that you have a good pilot shaft tool to align the clutch disk to the pilot bearing otherwise it will be a real fight to get the input shaft snout into the pilot bushing. (I used an old input shaft)
In my opinion, If you go to all of the trouble to pull the engine, might as well replace the jingling timing chain and tensioner. Then if you are that far, drop the pan and inspect the bearings. Oh, and might as well put that hot cam shaft in while you are at it,,, So on and on until the whole engine is rebuilt.
So that is why I always pulled the transmission out the bottom.
I put my OD transmission in my series V from underneath. You do need help though.
A few 6packs helps also.
 

AlsPine

Donation Time
Hi Jay,
31 years of sunbeaming...
Got my 1st Alpine in 1968, a red series 2... 42 years ago, god, that was long ago. Don't have that one now, but have a white one waiting its turn for restoration along with my series V, but want to get my series 3 on the road 1st.
Dated me though.
Picked up a Series 3GT 2 years ago that I am in the process of restoring now. Always wanted one as I like the shark fins tail look and the later hard top compatibility.
 

Tom H

Platinum Level Sponsor
Derek, If you do remove the clutch for inspection and/or replacement be sure to note what AlsPine says in post #13 about the clutch alignment tool. You need it to get the clutch disk centered on the flywheel or you'll never get the tranny input shaft into the pilot bushing.

Tom
 

Jim E

Donation Time
You can drop a non OD trans pretty easy out the bottom with the engine still mostly in place but an OD trans damn sure is not going back that way and by the time you struggle to move the engine far enough forward to get the OD trans in the car you would be better off to have pulled the motor from the get go. I am a separate units remove/install person
 

AlsPine

Donation Time
Jim E,
It was many years ago when I put the OD trans in my series V, but I'm sure I did it from the bottom. Where I have my V parked, I can't get under it right now to look. The OD trans is just under 3" longer, so Derek, look at the tail shaft housing of your stock trans and see if you have about 3" of clearance to the X frame.
 

Ragg Mopp

Donation Time
I dropped my standard tranny from underneath to replace leaky seals when I first got it and followed the shop manual procedure. I missed the fact that a previous owner had turned the distributor 90 degrees and it hit the steering and ripped the vacuum advance off. Look closely at everything when tilting the engine and you will have to remove the radiator or the fan could cut it when tilting.
 

Jay Laifman

Donation Time
Al,

It was my first car in 1978, a 1967 very late SV, one of the last 100 made, with 60k miles and a blown headgasket, and some wear and tear from sitting outside for much of the time. I drove the snot out of it though high school. Years later, I restored it, with Holbay head, cam, Webers, etc. Drove it regularly. Then about 10 years ago I got T boned real hard in it. He hit me at 45 mph! And you know what? All that happened to me was a hurt pinky. The car was a mess, but it still was able to muster up the strength to get me home 15 miles away! GO SUNBEAM!

It was too much damage to the body to restore. Someone had a stripped S3 shell in their backyard. So, I got it, had it stripped, no damage found, and repainted. I then moved piece by piece from my SV to my S3 shell.

I admittedly have gone from a flat fin fan to a pointy fin lover. With wire wheels, a dark color, and late model non-peaked headlight rims (from my SV), the car is the stunning car it always should have been.

I restored the matching hard top too. But, that has been on once in the last 10 years.
 

Steeman01

Donation Time
Hey everyone, instead of starting a whole new thread regarding the removal of a transmission on a SV, I thought I'd attach my question onto this thread. I need to drop my transmission in order to replace the throwout bearing. I currently have it on jack stands on all four corners with the chassis 15 in off the ground.

My question is, is 15 inches from the bottom of the chassis high enough for me to get the transmission out?

Thanks!
 
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