Gauge Problems

[Eleven]

Series V Alpine, New wire harness, gas and temp gauges not working. Gas reads full, Water pulses at bottom of scale. I cleaned and re set the grounds, Voltage stabilizer pulses between +10 and +15 Volts. Sending units connected. I had a similar problem on my GT6 but it turned out to be grounding, I cannot find a grounding issue here. Jaeger gauges. Any ideas?

 

[mikephillips]

Here's what I would do to try to isolate the problem.
1 Do the instrument lights for those gauges work?? If not the ground wire could have an internal break. Also make sure the end if the ground is fastened to the body somewhere behind the dash and that this connection is clean.
2 I don't know what the proper reading from the stabilizer should be, try replacing it with another if you have one laying around. Make sure it's connection to the body is clean so it's grounded.
3 Make sure that the gas sender unit isn't stuck full on, it might nee to be removed for this. The reason I suggest this is that since the gas and temp gauges work the same way I would expect them both to read max or min together rather than one of each.
4 Run a temporary ground from the sender to the body to ensure it's grounded.
5 Touch the lead for the temp sender to the engine, does the gauge go to
the max reading?? If so then that sender is bad.

These are the things I'd do to get started. If you don't find anything then it becomes more difficult. But normally my experience is that either poor grounding or sender problems cause most bad readings.

 

[Eleven]

Mike,
Thank you! I'll work through your tests. I spent all day yesterday on it and accomplished nothing. I just got the car and know little about it, I've been a GT6 Triumph guy for years. The wiring looks the same so this baffles me. I'll test the senders and see what happens. Usually gauge problems are grounding issues and these so far have checked out fine!! Ah the joys!!!

I really appreciate your reply!

 

[lemansvk]

Series V Alpine, New wire harness, gas and temp gauges not working. Gas reads full, Water pulses at bottom of scale. I cleaned and re set the grounds, Voltage stabilizer pulses between +10 and +15 Volts. Sending units connected. I had a similar problem on my GT6 but it turned out to be grounding, I cannot find a grounding issue here. Jaeger gauges. Any ideas?

My guess is a voltage stabiliser problem. I would expect guages that weren't grounding to just sit unmoving at the bottom of the scale (like they weren't connected at all),

Vic

 

[Eleven]

Thanks Vic! I wondered about that, the unit in the car looks new but that can mean anything. Mike below had an observation that I didn't make, the two gauges were doing opposite things. I think I will replace the Temp sending unit first. If no joy the gauge (have a spare) if nothing the voltage stabilizer. As for the gas, I think Mike is right, it looks grounded or shorted. Am going to run a temporary wire to the tank and see if it reacts.

I appreciate you fellows taking the time to give me some ideas. I'll post when I (or you!) solve it and let you know.

 

[Nickodell]

Hi "Eleven." A guy on ebaY is advertising solid state voltage stabilizers for English sports cars that he designed and makes himself. He includes in the advt. a very clear explanation of how the original v.s. works, including a line drawing (I've always wondered what was inside that box!) and why they go wrong in various ways, and the symptoms. He's not asking much for his solid state units. Check under "Sunbeam Alpine" on ebaY. I'm buying one to put aside in my box of spares as a backup if I get gauge problems.

 

[Barry]

Eleven,

I agree with the advice from everybody and would add a couple of thoughts. First, the voltage stabilizer gizmo should be steady at about 10 volts and not pulsing; Nick's recommendation about the solid state unit is the best solution and I think the eBay listing is probably by one of our members. Second, I suspect you may also have sender issues. The fuel and temp sensors should both be about 240 ohms when cold / empty and about 33 ohms when hot / full. If you have access to a 10 volt DC source, you can also check the gauges by using a 33 ohm and 240 ohm (+/- 10% is close enough) resistance in series with the gauge. Remember that the Alpine gauges work by heating a bi-metallic strip and do not respond very quickly.

 

[Series3Scott]

Hi "Eleven." A guy on ebaY is advertising solid state voltage stabilizers for English sports cars that he designed and makes himself. He includes in the advt. a very clear explanation of how the original v.s. works, including a line drawing (I've always wondered what was inside that box!) and why they go wrong in various ways, and the symptoms. He's not asking much for his solid state units. Check under "Sunbeam Alpine" on ebaY. I'm buying one to put aside in my box of spares as a backup if I get gauge problems.

These are made by Ed Esslinger, a well-known Sunbeam owner and club supporter who builds these units as well as the variable wiper units.

I had the same issue with my guages and went through a number of "new" and used stabilizers. Finally gave up and bought Ed's unit and had no problems since. Highly recommended!

 

[65beam]

voltage stabilizers

keep in mind that the original voltage stabilizer must be kept in an upright position in order for it to work right. check the manual for the proper mounting.

 

[65beam]

voltage

i have to agree with scott. grandpa ed's unit will cure your problems.

 

[Nickodell]

Remember that the Alpine gauges work by heating a bi-metallic strip and do not respond very quickly.

Rather than a bi-metal strip, doesn't the fuel gauge work by two coils opposite each other, connected to the sending unit in the tank, pulling a moving iron attached to the needle, which then moves the needle toward the E or F sides, by the appropriate voltages the coils receive from the sending unit?

 

[mikephillips]

If you take the glass and faces off the gas and temp gauges you'll see that they're almost identical internally. I've had a number apart for cleaning and redoing the cases. Now the ammeter works with 2 wire loops and a magnetic field to swing the needle, perhaps that's what you're thinking of.

 

[Eleven]

Wow, many thanks for all the info. My stabilizer does pulse, I wondered about that but thought that maybe it was right because I think they have a on/off connection inside that smooths the electric flow (I am quickly running out of electrical knowledge!!) I've been working off this page: http://www.gaugeguys.com/trouble.htm. Fixed an issue I have with my TR but is not working for the Alpine yet. I doubt the Smith or Jaeger guages are that different.
Am convinced that the temp sending unit is bad, will go there first and then replace the stabilizer (which sounds bad from the comments below)
Again, many thanks!

 

[Nickodell]

Mike: The last time I took a fuel gauge apart was back in the 50s, and it had the two tiny coils I described. Probably the design has changed since then, so you're probably right.

Eleven: [C'mon, don't be shy. Tell us your name!] Jaeger was a division of the old Swiss watch company Jaeger LeCoultre, which traces its origins back to 1833. Makers of fine cars, like Rolls, Bentley and Aston martin wouldn't, of course, put the same common Smiths instruments in their vehicles as in our lowly mass-produced cars, so you would see only Jaeger in them.

So I understand that Smiths bought the instrument division, calling it British Jaeger. In that way they enjoyed a total monopoly of instruments (except for a few aagh! Lucas ammeters) installed as original equipment in British cars, the same way that Lucas had all the electrics. Ain't capitalism grand? [It is except when you allow monopolies].

So Smiths or British Jaeger - one and the same.

 

[Eleven]

No mystery, Tracy Skinner, Bellevue Washington. First car I wanted was a clapped out TR3, deal got nixed so I bought a Volvo 544. Same motor so I felt it was close enough! Roommate in the Army raced Formula Vees so we did that in Germany, came back and borrowed an Alpine from a buddy. Great race car but I needed my own so bought Spitfire. Been a TR guy since until I found this Alpine a few weeks ago. Love it, feels like a real car compared to the TR's. Have my GT6 for sale, lightning fast and scary as hell! Came home tonight ready and fired up to dive into the gauges and found the Alpine has peed it's gas all over the floor. What happens, two Brit cars sit in the same garage, they start talking. " 'Ey Nigel, wot say we 'ave one wit the gov'nor" something like that. Gas line was too close to the drive shaft and wore through.
Long post, sorry!

 

[Wombat]

If you look closely at the back of the gauges, you will see "Smiths Industries" stamped in the case!!

Lucas and Smiths did indeed come to a Gentlemen's Agreement on the division of electrical equipment on British cars. Didn't help them though, they have both been gobbled up by bigger fish.

 

[Eleven]

Any contact info on Ed Esslinger. I checked ebay but no ads were there for the voltage stabilizers.

 

[coolcat]

Gauge Regulators

Any contact info on Ed Esslinger. I checked ebay but no ads were there for the voltage stabilizers.

I have not listed any gauge regulators on E-bay, as I don't have any made up at this time. If any one wants one, I should have some available next week. You (or anyone) may buy one direct from me ****edstiger@charter.net**** Regards Ed Esslinger coolcat

 

[Nickodell]

I just tried to find the ebay advert I referred to, but there's nothing there today. Weird, as I only saw the guy's advert on Monday, three days ago, but it's gone now.

 

[gordonra]

This is an expired item number from ebay for one of his items: 290065820369

Rich