Fuel Smell

[RootesRooter]

Thanks Dick for the thought. I looked at that. My crossover is actually steel tubing! Must have been a chore bending that and getting it in but am glad the PO did.

How good are the fittings?

 

[RootesRooter]

The middle part of the U.S. has a tremendous amount of farm land that produces corn, soy beans or wheat. Corn can be ready to pick in a few months. The refineries take a gallon of sub grade gas which is either 84 or85 octane ,add 10% ethanol to the mix and you end up with an 87 octane. The ethanol works as an octane booster. When the push to use ethanol got a good head of steam managers like myself attended meetings telling us why the blend was being done and also the reduction and tax credits available to distributors and consumers. There is a plant just east of Dayton that is a large producer of ethanol. Farmers make money, ethanol plants make money and the consumer saves money. There are also other reasons that government agencies like it. Pump price has bumped up right now since the refineries have to have all winter blend fuel out and by the first of the month we have to be selling summer grade fuel. This resulted in some shortages which runs prices up. Check out oxygenated fuels for the reasons why the two blends. None of the refinery terminals in Ohio have non ethanol gas for highway fuel. They do have what is called "recreational gas" which has no ethanol and has an entirely different tax base. It's not legal to use on the road for excise tax reasons. That could result in tax problems for the seller and the consumer.
I'm sure many have seen the Rock Auto commercials on TV about the counter person at auto parts. That says a lot. If it sells then they stock it and make a profit. Just don't mention the specs that Barry mentioned because they probably won't have any idea what you're talking about.

E10? Ethanol is more costly to refine, vehicle gas mileage goes down, corn prices go up, and its heavily subsidized by the taxpayers. What's to like, unless you're a farmer collecting a big check?

 

[65beam]

E10? Ethanol is more costly to refine, vehicle gas mileage goes down, corn prices go up, and its heavily subsidized by the taxpayers. What's to like, unless you're a farmer collecting a big check?

Keep in mind that I said they start with a sub grade gas that is either an 84 or 85 octane. If you lived in Ohio you would learn to live with E 10 since there is nothing else available. Non ethanol road gas is not available at any Ohio fuel terminals. You will find some stores close to the Kentucky border along the Ohio river that pull non ethanol gas out of the Marathon terminal in Ashland but very few do it due to tax issues and net versus gross gallons. I had a conversation with the one coal mine near us that I sell fuel to and the conversation swung into pricing. Thirty years ago the same buyer used to pound on me about 25 cent off road diesel and gas close to a dollar per gallon. We have seen gas prices climb recently due to refinery turn around and the switch to summer blend gas. Todays E 10 gas price is up to $2.59 per gallon.

 

[Barry]

What's to like, ...?

Politicians love the large "campaign donations" from the corn lobby and the ethanol producers.

The whole thing is a fiscal and ecological boondoggle that would not exist without the enormous taxpayer funded subsidies. As Yogi said, "You could look it up".

 

[absunbeam]

Government subsidized corn growers and ethanol producers and then mandates it to the oil companies to blend in certain areas of the country. I would at least like the option of purchasing non-ethanol even if it is 50 cents higher in my area. Feel for the guys who's states have eliminated non-ethanol altogether thanks to the corn lobby. See they are changing over in GB to ethanol. Imported I'm sure.

 

[Bill Blue]

Ethanol is an oxygenate, which, politics aside, makes it a good thing to add to gasoline. It does clean up emissions. I have no idea how much would be blended if the politics disappeared.

Bill

 

[65beam]

Another over looked fuel is Bio Diesel. We stock it in our card lock fueling locations. We have some federal sites in the area that don't stock fuels so they fuel vehicles with alternative fuels. Has anyone thought about the supply of gallons that can be gained by adding ethanol to a 5 million gallon storage tank ? Pricing would be a lot higher without ethanol and the tax breaks.

 

[Bill Blue]

I replaced the rubber hose yesterday. The hose was 3/8" x thick wall (almost 3/4" O.D.). Absolutely no markings but did not look deteriorated. Barb says it smelled like gasoline. I think there might be a Bloodhound somewhere in her family history. Anyway, it was replaced with with 3/8" soft copper tubing. The installation required a hose to adapt to the hose barb on the left hand tank, I used fuel injector hose.

Bill

 

[mikephillips]

I'd be careful with copper Bill, the vibration can harden it and eventually lead to cracking. You would probably be better off with that copper/nickel blend tubing they use for non rusting brake lines. The added nickel is supposed to cure the problems pure copper can have.

 

[Bill Blue]

I figure that in this case, "eventually" will be long after I'm gone and the tube only carries vapor. Its not like it is on the engine carrying fuel under pressure.
Bill

 

[65beam]

I'd be careful with copper Bill, the vibration can harden it and eventually lead to cracking. You would probably be better off with that copper/nickel blend tubing they use for non rusting brake lines. The added nickel is supposed to cure the problems pure copper can have.

Doug Jennings used the copper /nickel when he installed the fuel line on the Harrington. He used ethanol proof hose to connect the line to both sides of the electric pump. The C/N will bend so easy and go where you want it. Reg Hahn in Cincinnati used a stainless one piece fuel line made by Bob's Brake Line in West Chester on his Harrington. I won't go into how many days it took to install it. Stainless doesn't bend too well.

 

[Bill Blue]

I used copper-nickel for the fuel lines, both pressure and return. Strange stuff. I can bend it easily by hand and it does not kink. However, tubing benders will kink it every time.

But a nice reprieve from that damn steel brake line.

Bill

 

[65beam]

I bought a 25 foot roll at Advance Auto Parts and Doug said the same thing about being easy to work with. He was able to easily bend and push it where he wanted and lay it against the body. It's clamped in place by the tabs on the body. It makes for a very nice installation.

 

[Gordon Holsinger]

I bought a 25 foot roll at Advance Auto Parts and Doug said the same thing about being easy to work with. He was able to easily bend and push it where he wanted and lay it against the body. It's clamped in place by the tabs on the body. It makes for a very nice installation.

I replaced the crossover line some years ago with a metal line but before I installed it I covered it with a rubberized coating so it would not rattle

 

[puff4]

When I first bought my Alpine over 37 years ago it had this faint smell of gas that I kept chasing to find. I checked and tightened fittings, removed and sealed the tanks, checked the lower cross-tube fittings, renewed the fill cap gasket and even rebuilt the fuel pump... all to no avail. After about two years of chasing I finally found it... the DPO had put on a new top somewhere along the line , and in the process of drilling out the rivets on the rear attachment bar he had perforated the cross-over vent pipe. Grrr.

 

[Bill Blue]

I think I killed the monster. While removing the crossover hose, I cracked the rubber filler tube. Replaced it with the old filler tube, which I also cracked. Bought and installed a new filler tube, it was nice and supple, very easy to install. The odor is now gone. The filler tube history is complex. I bought a new one about ten years ago. While installing it, I decided the old tube was every bit as good as the new one. The new one did not help the problem, so the old one got saved and eventually reused.

I am now forced to conclude they have been the problem all the while, as there was certainly nothing wrong with the crossover hose that got replaced with copper. Thick walled and pristine. By the way, the copper is carried in rubber, so work hardening should not be a problem.

Bi