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Fuel Smell

Eleven

Eleven

Platinum Level Sponsor
My car has smelled like gas for a while and I could not trace a leak or a problem. My electric fuel pump is starting to gasp so am replacing. Talking to Pegasus racing while ordering one, the fellow, Bart I think, asked if I was using regular rubber fuel hose. Yes. Well he says, the modern fuels permeate them and often is the cause of the odor. Said to use fuel injection hose because it is lined. Huh.
Going to do that when I install the new pump next week.
 
Barry

Barry

Diamond Level Sponsor
Tracy,

Bart at Pegasus was pretty much on target.

The current standards for fuel hose are:

SAE J30R7 ("carburetor fuel hose") which is good for gasoline up to 50 PSI (up to 3/8" ID) and 35 PSI (over 3/8" ID). It is NOT rated for ethanol or diesel or for fuel injection return line. This is an old standard that was issued before E10 or E15 existed and J30R7 fuel hose is not required to be resistant to ethanol.

SAE J30R9 ("fuel injection hose") which is good for about any fuel (including ethanol) or lube oil up to 100 PSI working pressure (900 PSI burst). It also has "low permeation".​

Any fuel hose should be clearly marked with the SAE rating and the name of the manufacturer. If not, it is not legitimate fuel hose.

Note that the outside of either J30R7 or J30R9 fuel hose is not required to be (and probably is not) resistant to either gasoline or ethanol. If you get gasoline / ethanol on the outside of automotive fuel hose, you may get a black residue on anything that touches the hose.

In my opinion, the "crossover" line that goes between the tops of the wing tanks should also be J30R9, because J30R7 (or non-reinforced tubing) is not required to be resistant to ethanol (liquid or vapor) and is not required to be "low permeability".
 
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65beam

65beam

Donation Time
My company sells to the big box auto parts stores such as Auto Zone, Advance and O'reilly's so I'm in a lot of these stores. If you go in and ask for fuel line you need to tell them it's for fuel injection. They'll give you regular hose if not specified. I've had it happen to me and know others that had it happen.
 
Mike O'D

Mike O'D

Gold Level Sponsor
Barry,

Are you saying that auto parts stores are selling fuel hose that is not compatible with ethanol? The majority of fuel sold has ethanol in it.

Mike
 
Barry

Barry

Diamond Level Sponsor
Mike,

Correct; the majority of fuel sold in the U.S. has ethanol in it. If you are interested in why, do an internet search for "corn based ethanol fuel subsidies."

Also correct; auto parts stores in the U.S. are selling fuel hose that is not rated for and is not compatible for use with ethanol. As explained above, the J30R7 standard for "carburetor fuel hose" was developed and issued long before anything other than "straight" gasoline was an idea, much less a thing. There was no need for automotive fuel hose to be compatible with ethanol or to have "low permeability" to protect the environment. It is technically possible that some "carburetor hose" is compatible with ethanol and / or has low permeability, but neither are legally required for fuel hose marked J30R7 and there are no financial or regulatory reasons for the hose makers to do so. In my experience, the typical "counter man" in a U.S. auto parts store does not have a clue.
 
RootesRooter

RootesRooter

Donation Time
Tracy, do check the crossover line that Barry mentioned for any cracks. It's the most common cause of fuel smell. Also, I don't know if you've ever replaced the sending unit from the gas tank, but I've recently heard (3rd-hand, originally from Rick at SS) that the factory manual repair instructions are wrong and can lead to a leaky seal.

Dick Sanders
Kent, WA
 
65beam

65beam

Donation Time
Barry said:
Mike,

Correct; the majority of fuel sold in the U.S. has ethanol in it. If you are interested in why, do an internet search for "corn based ethanol fuel subsidies."

Also correct; auto parts stores in the U.S. are selling fuel hose that is not rated for and is not compatible for use with ethanol. As explained above, the J30R7 standard for "carburetor fuel hose" was developed and issued long before anything other than "straight" gasoline was an idea, much less a thing. There was no need for automotive fuel hose to be compatible with ethanol or to have "low permeability" to protect the environment. It is technically possible that some "carburetor hose" is compatible with ethanol and / or has low permeability, but neither are legally required for fuel hose marked J30R7 and there are no financial or regulatory reasons for the hose makers to do so. In my experience, the typical "counter man" in a U.S. auto parts store does not have a clue.
Click to expand...
The middle part of the U.S. has a tremendous amount of farm land that produces corn, soy beans or wheat. Corn can be ready to pick in a few months. The refineries take a gallon of sub grade gas which is either 84 or85 octane ,add 10% ethanol to the mix and you end up with an 87 octane. The ethanol works as an octane booster. When the push to use ethanol got a good head of steam managers like myself attended meetings telling us why the blend was being done and also the reduction and tax credits available to distributors and consumers. There is a plant just east of Dayton that is a large producer of ethanol. Farmers make money, ethanol plants make money and the consumer saves money. There are also other reasons that government agencies like it. Pump price has bumped up right now since the refineries have to have all winter blend fuel out and by the first of the month we have to be selling summer grade fuel. This resulted in some shortages which runs prices up. Check out oxygenated fuels for the reasons why the two blends. None of the refinery terminals in Ohio have non ethanol gas for highway fuel. They do have what is called "recreational gas" which has no ethanol and has an entirely different tax base. It's not legal to use on the road for excise tax reasons. That could result in tax problems for the seller and the consumer.
I'm sure many have seen the Rock Auto commercials on TV about the counter person at auto parts. That says a lot. If it sells then they stock it and make a profit. Just don't mention the specs that Barry mentioned because they probably won't have any idea what you're talking about.
 
B

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
But they will sell you J30R9 fuel hose if you ask for it. Just don't allow them to make a decision or influence your choice as to the proper hose you need.

Bill
 
65beam

65beam

Donation Time
Bill Blue said:
But they will sell you J30R9 fuel hose if you ask for it. Just don't allow them to make a decision or influence your choice as to the proper hose you need.

Bill
Click to expand...
Bill,
Keep in mind that the average Joe isn't aware that there are different specs. I go thru this type of thing concerning lubes every day of the week.
 
B

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
65beam said:
Bill,
Keep in mind that the average Joe isn't aware that there are different specs. I go thru this type of thing concerning lubes every day of the week.
Click to expand...
My point is that you should ignore part specifications. Just ask for and demand the correct part. In this case. J30R9. Anything else can result in inferior parts and problems. I got caught up in this a few years ago when I purchased fuel hose that was supposedly good for use as a vapor hose, but not as a pressure hose. But that was not the equalization hose. I got that out of a box of VB parts that came with the car over 20 years ago. I doubt that even God himself has any idea what that stuff might be.

Bill
 
65beam

65beam

Donation Time
Bill Blue said:
My point is that you should ignore part specifications. Just ask for and demand the correct part. In this case. J30R9. Anything else can result in inferior parts and problems. I got caught up in this a few years ago when I purchased fuel hose that was supposedly good for use as a vapor hose, but not as a pressure hose. But that was not the equalization hose. I got that out of a box of VB parts that came with the car over 20 years ago. I doubt that even God himself has any idea what that stuff might be.

Bill
Click to expand...
Bill,
It's hard to find good minimum wage help for the big box stores. VB has sent out e mails showing a keyboard sticking out of a broken monitor and say they are aware of past problems and are trying to fix the problems. Took them long enough!
 
B

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
They've got a long way to go. Twenty years ago they were sending me a left handed brake adjuster, I needed a right handed model. They finally gave up and refunded my money. Right and left handed threads were beyond them. Fortunately, windshields are not handed, so that went pretty good.

Bill
 
Eleven

Eleven

Platinum Level Sponsor
RootesRooter said:
Tracy, do check the crossover line that Barry mentioned for any cracks. It's the most common cause of fuel smell. Also, I don't know if you've ever replaced the sending unit from the gas tank, but I've recently heard (3rd-hand, originally from Rick at SS) that the factory manual repair instructions are wrong and can lead to a leaky seal.

Dick Sanders
Kent, WA
Click to expand...
Thanks Dick for the thought. I looked at that. My crossover is actually steel tubing! Must have been a chore bending that and getting it in but am glad the PO did.
 
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