Fuel Injected Tiger

[64beam]

Hi,

I have literally just finished connecting up my ICE ignition system on the Tiger and set the static timing. All I need to do is run the vacuum advance hose from the module to the throttle body and manufacture a bracket. That should alleviate any ignition issues now . I actually noticed a similar issue with the idle as Doug experienced, but cleared once I stopped the engine and restarted. It may be due to sitting idle for a length of time, but I have never noticed that before. Overall I have had very little trouble with the system and as Doug wrote gets better every time I drive it. I am looking forward to getting back on the road.

By the way, how is your Tiger running Bill?

Regards, Robin.

 

[atallamcs]

Tiger

Hi Robin,
I am glad to hear your system is working out. My Tiger starts right up and runs solid. I love the fact there is no gas smell, it idles precisely and is throttle responsive. A bit of modernization the Tiger needed. Happy New Year!
Bill

 

[64beam]

Hi Robin,
I am glad to hear your system is working out. My Tiger starts right up and runs solid. I love the fact there is no gas smell, it idles precisely and is throttle responsive. A bit of modernization the Tiger needed. Happy New Year!
Bill

Happy new year and all the best for 2011 to you Bill. You are quite correct, every little bit helps and looking at our engine bays, you wouldn't know what is hiding beneath the air cleaner.

Kind Regards, Robin.

 

[atallamcs]

Any other owners going to Fuel Injected

I have had great results with this system and cannot imagine running the old fashion carburetor. It is a big improvement on all fronts for a Tiger--solid, responsive performance and ideal for taking up on those mountain roads or running along the shore. In either case, the car runs consistently and without those gas fumes. I am surprised it is not taking off more with Tiger folks that look for true enhancements?
Bill

 

[64beam]

I have had great results with this system and cannot imagine running the old fashion carburetor. It is a big improvement on all fronts for a Tiger--solid, responsive performance and ideal for taking up on those mountain roads or running along the shore. In either case, the car runs consistently and without those gas fumes. I am surprised it is not taking off more with Tiger folks that look for true enhancements?
Bill

Hi Bill,

I would have to agree 100%. Sure carburettors give great performance, but the refinement that the efi gives as you stated is a big improvement. The EZ-EFI system coupled to a good quality ignition system is definitely the way to go. I don't think our Tiger has ever run so well, especially hot and cold starting. Come on some of you other guys, make the move (the single unit supports up to 600Hp)... you will not be sorry.

Regards, Robin.

 

[Duke]

Once I get my new 347 running good on a carb.......and I have a budget again, I may go EFI.

I will be tuning the engine on an engine dyno before it goes in the car. I will squeeze ever single HP I can get out of the Autolite 4100 (1.12).

I was talking some Cobra (kit) guys and they reccomend the Powerjection III. Say that is is a very clean install compared to the FAST EFI. The throttle body assembly looks like it may contact the fire wall though. It is also $500 less.

 

[atallamcs]

FAST Tiger

Hi Robin,
Thanks for asking, my Tiger is running very well. It just starts right up, settles on idle and is very responsive. I like it for being able to adjust to altitude since I live up in the mountains near Lake Tahoe. It was one of the best improvements I have made. My carb was good, this is great.
Bill

 

[64beam]

Once I get my new 347 running good on a carb.......and I have a budget again, I may go EFI.

I will be tuning the engine on an engine dyno before it goes in the car. I will squeeze ever single HP I can get out of the Autolite 4100 (1.12).

I was talking some Cobra (kit) guys and they reccomend the Powerjection III. Say that is is a very clean install compared to the FAST EFI. The throttle body assembly looks like it may contact the fire wall though. It is also $500 less.

Hi Duke,

Don't get caught up in their sales BS on the powerjection site as the EZ-EFI system is simple to install and the throttle body looks so much neater. The powerjection looks like it would be very close to the firewall. The EZ system does not need a laptop which is a major advantage for the DIY mechanic. The clamp on 02 sensor bung is a leak waiting to happen as well. I'm sure when ever FAST bring out their next version of EZ-EFI, it will also have more options (It's fine the way it is though, even if you are limited to just naturally aspirated cars). The single fuel line option on the powerjection would aid in installation time but that is it. Your choice though if you choose to go that way. Well worth the expense though.

Regards, Robin.

 

[Duke]

The EZ system does not need a laptop which is a major advantage for the DIY mechanic.

I agree...I spent many, many hours tuning a Electromotive Tec3 system that ran my turbocharged 3.5L BMW engine. BTDT with fuel and timing maps....along with data logging. Don't really want to go back to that but could if I had too.

I also tuned water injection maps, boost maps and traction control on that car.

Ahhhhhhhhh.....them memories.

A pic of the engine of said BMW -

BTW - I paid $175 for the above BMW from a salvage yard in Germany. It was my baby for many years.

 

[RootesRacer]

I agree...I spent many, many hours tuning a Electromotive Tec3 system that ran my turbocharged 3.5L BMW engine. BTDT with fuel and timing maps....along with data logging. Don't really want to go back to that but could if I had too.

I also tuned water injection maps, boost maps and traction control on that car.

Ahhhhhhhhh.....them memories.

A pic of the engine of said BMW -

BTW - I paid $175 for the above BMW from a salvage yard in Germany. It was my baby for many years.

Duke, having tuned your TEC3, you really should know that mapping the VE table in the ECU is not a trivial affair, and not something you can do with a simple hand held programmer (at least not VE mapping).

The "self tuning" ability of the EZ-EFI system is not really tuning at all, it is using what is called "closed loop lambda control", which uses the O2 sensor to tweak the fuel as you drive. Tweak, meaning the adjustments are not permanent. They are closed loop adjustments performed as fast as the system can make adjustments to steady state lambda (AFR) errors.

Dont believe me? Remove your O2 sensor and take the car for a drive and see if it behaves the same as it did with the O2 sensor (a real self mapping system would drive the same, having been successfully mapped).

Closed loop lambda control lets you have a reasonable running engine without having a functional mapping tune. Remove the feedback and you have to run 100% off the bad map.

I am in the business or so to speak and I cant tell you how many times I get a kind note from someone telling me how well the engine ran with the ECU loaded with a default map. It ran well becuase of the closed loop lambda control, and sometime later when the sensor fails, the engine doesnt run so nice. FAST will probably recommend an O2 sensor replacement when the engine stops running nice, as running rich mixtures usually kills the wideband O2 sensor in 20,000 miles or so.

I'm not saying that the EZ-EFI isnt a viable product for you guys, I'm just saying that the lack of tuning with a laptop is not an asset, but a deficiency.
Most engines I tune on cant be run acceptably with closed loop lambda control, you actually have to map them out (with a laptop), only then may you turn on lambda control.

Considering the number of tuning parameters in modern engine management systems, I cannot contemplate how such an unsophisticated user interface could be used to tune a real world engine.

Were it me, I'd gladly use the throttle body and EFI hardware, ditch the FAST controller and use a more capable ECU tunes via laptop.

Your mileage may vary.

 

[atallamcs]

Efi

All good details. It is kind of humerous. We go from a crude, outdated carburetor--to now needing state of the art (Beyond the FAST solution), for our vintage cars. These aren't BMW's, Mercedes Porsches, these are old cars that can run a bit better with fuel injection of any type. Baby steps might be the order of the day.
Bill

 

[Duke]

Duke, having tuned your TEC3, you really should know that mapping the VE table in the ECU is not a trivial affair, and not something you can do with a simple hand held programmer (at least not VE mapping).

Considering the number of tuning parameters in modern engine management systems, I cannot contemplate how such an unsophisticated user interface could be used to tune a real world engine.

Ohhh yea, I agree with you 100%. I just loved playing with those 16X16 tables.....not!

Also consider that the EZ-EFI is just doing fuel. All of the ignition is still run by the distributer......which is even more limiting.

 

[64beam]

Hi Guys,

Also the consider the cost to install a 'full on' fuel injection system that requires a tuner to do all the tuning requirements. Instead of costing a couple of grand, try ten grand for an fuel/ignition system (and that wasn't including tuning). You could probably get things a little cheaper, but as Bill stated these are 50 year old cars and the fuel only EFI is a good improvement. From what I have read regarding the tuning of the EZ-EFI is that as pointed out, it does use the closed loop system. It starts out with a base tuning setting to get you started and then modifies the base tune so that when the ECU changes the amount of fuel going into the engine, they are only minor changes. It also has a 'limp' mode if a sensor should fail. I'm not sure if that is what you understand about the FAST system. Basically from what I have read, the base tune doesn't always stay in a poor state of tune unless a sensor fails.

Regards, Robin.

 

[RootesRacer]

Hi Guys,

Also the consider the cost to install a 'full on' fuel injection system that requires a tuner to do all the tuning requirements. Instead of costing a couple of grand, try ten grand for an fuel/ignition system (and that wasn't including tuning). You could probably get things a little cheaper, but as Bill stated these are 50 year old cars and the fuel only EFI is a good improvement. From what I have read regarding the tuning of the EZ-EFI is that as pointed out, it does use the closed loop system. It starts out with a base tuning setting to get you started and then modifies the base tune so that when the ECU changes the amount of fuel going into the engine, they are only minor changes. It also has a 'limp' mode if a sensor should fail. I'm not sure if that is what you understand about the FAST system. Basically from what I have read, the base tune doesn't always stay in a poor state of tune unless a sensor fails.

Regards, Robin.

No, 10 grand is not the right answer, you could pay 10 grand but that would be for a fully loaded racing system like a PI or Motec.

Ask Bill Blue (offline) what he paid for his full featured ECU and you will kick yourself.

"Limp" on the FAST means it reverts to its open loop mapping, which is only as good as the initial map they put in it.

Considering what FAST charges for their system, you would have thought that they could have given you a rudimentary ignition system controller.
Again ask Bill what he has and what it cost.


Again, the nice bolt on throttle body with the injectors mounted on it is where the value is of the FAST system.
Making a 50year old engine function and drive to the same standard as a brand new car is totally doable, just not with that level of programability (lack thereof).

 

[64beam]

No, 10 grand is not the right answer, you could pay 10 grand but that would be for a fully loaded racing system like a PI or Motec.

Ask Bill Blue (offline) what he paid for his full featured ECU and you will kick yourself.

"Limp" on the FAST means it reverts to its open loop mapping, which is only as good as the initial map they put in it.

Considering what FAST charges for their system, you would have thought that they could have given you a rudimentary ignition system controller.
Again ask Bill what he has and what it cost.


Again, the nice bolt on throttle body with the injectors mounted on it is where the value is of the FAST system.
Making a 50year old engine function and drive to the same standard as a brand new car is totally doable, just not with that level of programability (lack thereof).

Ten grand is what I was quoted from an EFI specialist that I used to buy some bits from (and that was not a race setup). I'm sure you could certainly do it a lot cheaper. FAST also offer the XFI which uses a laptop for tuning which is the 5 grand mark. Sure there are certainly better systems around, but the improved drive that the EZ system gives I am very happy with it. The ability to tweak a few A/F settings is enough for me. At least the Tiger is now far more reliable than it was when my Dad used to drive it.

 

[dlyle123]

I drove my EZ-EFI injected Husky today. It's been raining for a couple of weeks so this was the first time out in a while. The car started immediately and set right in to my idle speed of 750. I put the car in gear (it's an automatic) and it happily idled forward....no stalling. These EZ-EFI systems are amazing. The car runs better than ever before and has more power than ever.

I'll add one thing about the Powerjection. I recently took my Husky to a dyno shop to make sure the injection was dialed in. The mechanic told me that he was very impressed with the EZ-EFI. So much so that he said it was the only system he would recommend and he specifically said he didn't like the Powerjection, Holley, and Edelbrock systems.

The only thing that the EZ-EFI currently lacks is data logging. From what I understand they are working to add that. Once they do you will have the ability to have a remote tuning shop dial in to your car while it's running and tune it. That would be pretty cool. For me though the EZ system has just the right amount of features and not too many to make it confusing.

If you're looking to get one do a little research. You'll quickly find that the only people that have problems with these systems are the people that didn't follow directions. If you do they really are easy to install.

 

[atallamcs]

Fue Injection

That is great to hear. I am so glad your car is running well. I too have nothing but praise with the set up on my Tiger. And you are right, if someone doesn't follow the simple directions the outcome will be obvious. Glad to have recommended something of value.
Bill

 

[64beam]

Hi Guys,

Make that three. I have been very happy with my setup and is running perfectly. I had been wondering how your Husky was running Doug and I am glad it's running perfectly. A trip to the dyno is my only other check that I need to do. Happy motoring guys.

Regards, Robin.

 

[socorob]

I have my tank out the car at the moment, so while it's out I decided it's a good time to replace my old looking fuel line and regulator and put fittings in the tank for a return and vent line in case I ever go to injection. I talked to FAST on the phone and they said they need -6AN lines, so that's what I'll run for my new fuel line. My question is, what kind of regulator does it need? A single hose type or a 2 hose return type, and what brand and part # is everyone using? Does the line go from the tank to a regulator to the throttle body and then from the throttle body directly back to the tank?

 

[64beam]

I have my tank out the car at the moment, so while it's out I decided it's a good time to replace my old looking fuel line and regulator and put fittings in the tank for a return and vent line in case I ever go to injection. I talked to FAST on the phone and they said they need -6AN lines, so that's what I'll run for my new fuel line. My question is, what kind of regulator does it need? A single hose type or a 2 hose return type, and what brand and part # is everyone using? Does the line go from the tank to a regulator to the throttle body and then from the throttle body directly back to the tank?

Hi Robbie,

The return line only needs to be 5/16 as per the original fuel line, but if you plan on running the return to the tank you may want to extend the pipe further into the tank to reduce the noise of the returning fuel. The fuel pump kit that FAST sell includes a regulator which is a dual inlet type (unless they have changed it since my purchase). If it is still a dual type reg, they supply a plug for the unused port. To plumb the return system, you have full pressure from the EFI pump to the fuel rails, then through the reg (set for your max system pressure) and finally out of the reg through the return line back to tank. I copied the setup similar to Bill's in that our return line does not go to the tank, but to the tank balance pipe which seems to work well. I hope this helps. Here is a link to what I did for my return line: http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2020754880104459124sFhXKD

Regards, Robin.