CapeCodTom
Donation Time
My vote would be to put Pam Anderson in Grace Kelly's wardrobe. Hard to beat the classic appearance with "improved" performance!
Sorry guys, I couldn't resist.
Sorry guys, I couldn't resist.
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Four club webinar
- Thread starter Series6
- Start date
How about offering two categories. Concours d'Elegance and Open. Each would have their own classes, probably based on Series. I suppose you could consider the "Open" category to be dedicated to "keeping them on the road". "Concours" would be dedicated to correctness and looks.
Bill
Bill
Well, it appears that someone (not me) is unhappy with the system. Better ask them. Just trying to be helpful.
As an after thought, maybe if we had a better car show competition, we would have huge turnouts.
Bill
65beam
Donation Time
Sometimes called " Diamond In The Rough "
Absolutely not!!!
They would be quality cars that are not dedicated to being original. Originality could be appreciated, but not a judged criteria. For example, the paint job could be judged, but not the the color or shinyness of the paint.
Why are you defending the status quo? Very few of us here have really care about this issue. You need to speak to the Webinar folks. They are the ones who want to make changes.
But sometimes it is good to step back and look at the system as a whole. Back in the 70's, Ford decided to make some changes to the 2.0 OHC engine being put into the Pinto, then produce it in the states. At some point in the process, the decision was made to design a clean sheet engine. The result was the 2.3 engine, which was in production for 30 years. The only part it shared with the 2.0 was the starter motor. This may be that type of moment in the Sunbeam world.
Bill
65beam
Donation Time
webinar
Bill,
You hit the nail on the head. No one cares! I would say that for the last couple years you've had to notice owners out in the parking lot at dawn getting their cars ready for the concourse. The TE/AE status quo must work since owners take time to go to this extreme. I'm sure you've noticed the number of cars and owners that show up. If anyone knows what it's like to try to set up an event and very few if any show up it has to be you. I'm sure you've noticed that there were owners from Canada to the gulf coast and even owners from the west coast. I know what it's like to set up an event for a group that cares. We had 100 cars show up the day of the concourse. Do you see a difference?
Bill,
You hit the nail on the head. No one cares! I would say that for the last couple years you've had to notice owners out in the parking lot at dawn getting their cars ready for the concourse. The TE/AE status quo must work since owners take time to go to this extreme. I'm sure you've noticed the number of cars and owners that show up. If anyone knows what it's like to try to set up an event and very few if any show up it has to be you. I'm sure you've noticed that there were owners from Canada to the gulf coast and even owners from the west coast. I know what it's like to set up an event for a group that cares. We had 100 cars show up the day of the concourse. Do you see a difference?
Judging
The best time we've had at a show was one of the invasions in Tell City
low key not a lot of horsepucky I have no clue as to how the judging went but we got a T Shirt out of the deal it seems the Judging at TE/AE changes to suit the day,?????????? at times. there's been a lot of good stuff here maybe it'll sort things out for a clearer path!
The best time we've had at a show was one of the invasions in Tell City
low key not a lot of horsepucky I have no clue as to how the judging went but we got a T Shirt out of the deal it seems the Judging at TE/AE changes to suit the day,?????????? at times. there's been a lot of good stuff here maybe it'll sort things out for a clearer path!
Warren
Bronze Level Sponsor
Several
Remember we can and have chose to add LAT options to the bone stock class. MK2's are almost always configured as and show in stock. The class is shrinking but lately that is not the case. Personalized is the biggest as Modified is the deep pocket domain as an IFS from Dale is 4 grand then brakes then rear axle cut and swap ends, brakes 347's on and on.
Here other inconsistencies,
5 bolt motors get 5 points more. Ever seen a United judge lay across the top of a motor and measure the distance between the top two engine mount bolts? Visually you can dress a 302 or a 289 to look like a 260 one could even deck it and add a build date as stage dressing.
Mounting of the lic.plate only on the rear boot by drilling. Clearly the dealers did this. Did all the dealers do this ? I think not. Just because the BoN author saw his get drilled upon delivery doesn't make it so.
Things have become complicated as the BoN was used as a benchmark for years. Trade secrets and copyright was used to protect the turf of proven restoration shops. Never mind that the community points out that the same cars were used in the vintage magazine ads much of the information was pulled from. Not taken into account any variation in the vendors supplies or as found condition of many unmolested cars.
BTW
260 motors were swapped like VW motors of the period due to their original application being industrial engines with pressed in rocker studs,
We don't have enough Alpines at any of the United's I have attended. I'd like to say some of my best friends have Alpines but the grim reaper just got one. "insert tearful emoji"
All above is IMHO and based in printed fact. Thank God Al Gore invented the internet
Anyone who comes to me and says you hurt my feelings at a United, I'll buy them a drink.
Remember we can and have chose to add LAT options to the bone stock class. MK2's are almost always configured as and show in stock. The class is shrinking but lately that is not the case. Personalized is the biggest as Modified is the deep pocket domain as an IFS from Dale is 4 grand then brakes then rear axle cut and swap ends, brakes 347's on and on.
Here other inconsistencies,
5 bolt motors get 5 points more. Ever seen a United judge lay across the top of a motor and measure the distance between the top two engine mount bolts? Visually you can dress a 302 or a 289 to look like a 260 one could even deck it and add a build date as stage dressing.
Mounting of the lic.plate only on the rear boot by drilling. Clearly the dealers did this. Did all the dealers do this ? I think not. Just because the BoN author saw his get drilled upon delivery doesn't make it so.
Things have become complicated as the BoN was used as a benchmark for years. Trade secrets and copyright was used to protect the turf of proven restoration shops. Never mind that the community points out that the same cars were used in the vintage magazine ads much of the information was pulled from. Not taken into account any variation in the vendors supplies or as found condition of many unmolested cars.
BTW
260 motors were swapped like VW motors of the period due to their original application being industrial engines with pressed in rocker studs,
We don't have enough Alpines at any of the United's I have attended. I'd like to say some of my best friends have Alpines but the grim reaper just got one. "insert tearful emoji"
All above is IMHO and based in printed fact. Thank God Al Gore invented the internet
Anyone who comes to me and says you hurt my feelings at a United, I'll buy them a drink.
todd reid
Gold Level Sponsor
Does anybody know how many of our members also belong to other clubs?
Do 90% of us also belong to TE/AE, or 10%? Might be interesting to know the answer!
At the risk of stating the obvious, this is an INTERNET based club, which has advantages and disadvantages - one disadvantage obviously being that it is hard to get a significant number of us together at any one place at any given time, so holding events can be a challenge.
Do 90% of us also belong to TE/AE, or 10%? Might be interesting to know the answer!
At the risk of stating the obvious, this is an INTERNET based club, which has advantages and disadvantages - one disadvantage obviously being that it is hard to get a significant number of us together at any one place at any given time, so holding events can be a challenge.
JoeMcC
Gold Level Sponsor
uniform concours rules
I just stumbled on this thread, very interesting...
As a long time Alpine owner, I would also like to see more Alpines at the TE/AE events. It doesn't seem right that we are so often outnumbered by Tigers, but it's worth noting that three of the 5 cars in Premier Class at the last United were Alpines!
Re: judging standards: at that United I volunteered to be a concours judge, and I really wished I had a better set of criteria for the cars in stock class, especially for the earlier Alpines (mine have always been Series V).
If a common set of judging criteria are to be developed, I think we ought to participate in setting those criteria. There are always some Alpines to be judged and a complete and consistent set of criteria would help. Whether SAOCA holds our own concours or not, this is one of the largest groups of Alpine owners, and a serious resource for information about the cars.
The subjectivity of the personalized / modified class should be addressed too, I think. There could even be a class for the V6 Alpine, if enough are present at an event, and those from the darkside can agree on criteria.
My car is no longer entered for judging in the concours. This car is for fun, not show, but the information on originality, and some of the personalizations / modifications seen at the shows have given me lots of ideas for some things to fix or add to my car (like the license plate bracket that goes under the bumper).
Todd, if anyone can send me a list of member names (not usernames) I can compare the TE/AE list to the SAOCA list to see where the overlap is. I understand the desire of some folks on the list to remain anonymous, so this may not be possible, but it would be interesting.
Where is this concurs rules issue going? Does there have to be a vote to have the club participate or should we just ask for some volunteers to participate in rule drafting?
I just stumbled on this thread, very interesting...
As a long time Alpine owner, I would also like to see more Alpines at the TE/AE events. It doesn't seem right that we are so often outnumbered by Tigers, but it's worth noting that three of the 5 cars in Premier Class at the last United were Alpines!
Re: judging standards: at that United I volunteered to be a concours judge, and I really wished I had a better set of criteria for the cars in stock class, especially for the earlier Alpines (mine have always been Series V).
If a common set of judging criteria are to be developed, I think we ought to participate in setting those criteria. There are always some Alpines to be judged and a complete and consistent set of criteria would help. Whether SAOCA holds our own concours or not, this is one of the largest groups of Alpine owners, and a serious resource for information about the cars.
The subjectivity of the personalized / modified class should be addressed too, I think. There could even be a class for the V6 Alpine, if enough are present at an event, and those from the darkside can agree on criteria.
My car is no longer entered for judging in the concours. This car is for fun, not show, but the information on originality, and some of the personalizations / modifications seen at the shows have given me lots of ideas for some things to fix or add to my car (like the license plate bracket that goes under the bumper).
Todd, if anyone can send me a list of member names (not usernames) I can compare the TE/AE list to the SAOCA list to see where the overlap is. I understand the desire of some folks on the list to remain anonymous, so this may not be possible, but it would be interesting.
Where is this concurs rules issue going? Does there have to be a vote to have the club participate or should we just ask for some volunteers to participate in rule drafting?
DanR
Diamond Level Sponsor
Joe....The following quote is the start of this THREAD: A little over a week ago I got an email requesting SAOCA participate in a phone/on line meeting with three well known Tiger clubs for the purpose of structuring judging national standards for Sunbeams. With the approval of your Board I did Saturday morning. Attending the meeting were TEAE, STOA and CAT and SAOCA. This is already in place for Mercedes Jaguar Roll Royce Porsche etc clubs.....Unquote.
As a result, Nick (Series6) our current President was selected to participate and represent the SAOCA in the subject discussions.
And as you can see there are a lot of ideas PRO & CON.
I believe it is a worth while idea to address some if not all of these ideas in the near future.
Who, what, where, when, why and How are all questions needing attention.
Stay tuned and participate,
As a result, Nick (Series6) our current President was selected to participate and represent the SAOCA in the subject discussions.
And as you can see there are a lot of ideas PRO & CON.
I believe it is a worth while idea to address some if not all of these ideas in the near future.
Who, what, where, when, why and How are all questions needing attention.
Stay tuned and participate,