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FIA approval of webers?

R

RootesRacer

Donation Time
Any of you have some sort of proof that FIA allowed DCOE webers on alpines?
We know they were used, now for the proof.

Any assistance would be appreciated.
 
Eleven

Eleven

Platinum Level Sponsor
Check under 1969 Sports cars. The Alpine is homologated there. My club does not have the earlier homologation list. Usually, clubs allow you to prepare under a set of rules, ie, you have a 1961 Alpine prepared to 1969 rules. SCCA always allowed this.
Try 1969, Grp IV (Sports Cars) Appendix J, Rule c. Carbs are free there.... as is ignition, back on goes the Pertronix!
 
Eleven

Eleven

Platinum Level Sponsor
FIA is confusing, Grp IV is the Sports Cars, the rule I quoted was Title VI, go figure
 
R

RootesRacer

Donation Time
Eleven said:
Check under 1969 Sports cars. The Alpine is homologated there. My club does not have the earlier homologation list. Usually, clubs allow you to prepare under a set of rules, ie, you have a 1961 Alpine prepared to 1969 rules. SCCA always allowed this.
Try 1969, Grp IV (Sports Cars) Appendix J, Rule c. Carbs are free there.... as is ignition, back on goes the Pertronix!
Click to expand...

I dont see what you found???

Are we under grp IV?

Skip the pertronics, points and almost ANY other electronic ignition are more accurate then that.
 
alpine_64

alpine_64

Donation Time
Jarrid,

I guess you are trying to justify running DCOE's on your car.

Production sports racing in australia requires factory spec cars.. now in my state (victoria) we cant run DCOE's as they were not homologated for our cars.. yet in New South Wales they can as they have FIA paperwork saying that the alpines ran at LM with them.

Problem is.. when the alpines ran webers it was in 1963.. they ran in a different class.. to international FIA spec if im right. Where as when they ran in 61 it was to a different group which allowed the body mods of the harrigton.. but mechanical spec was almost stock (they ran Zeniths). I guess it depends if you can convince your tech people to allow the later spec.. the class alpines ran back in under FIA international regs until 62 allowed them to run alloy panels etc.. but mechanically i think they were quite restricted...


Steve Silverstaein really needs to chime in here.. oer perhaps a UK member.. steve smith/clve harrington/mike broome?
 
R

RootesRacer

Donation Time
The way I see it, those cheatin MGBs are gonna walk all over me if I lose the the power of the webers, I will fight if I can.

Steve has already been asked on this, he referred my to Scott Christy, who referred me to Justin Harrington. Nothing yet has materialized except a grainy picture taken from a LeMans video showing what looks like DCOEs in the engine bay.

This race org will accept FIA information to determine the appropriateness of prep, if the specifics under the allowance is known and documented, then I stand a chance to pose the argument.
 
alpine_64

alpine_64

Donation Time
RootesRacer said:
The way I see it, those cheatin MGBs are gonna walk all over me if I lose the the power of the webers, I will fight if I can.

Steve has already been asked on this, he referred my to Scott Christy, who referred me to Justin Harrington. Nothing yet has materialized except a grainy picture taken from a LeMans video showing what looks like DCOEs in the engine bay.

This race org will accept FIA information to determine the appropriateness of prep, if the specifics under the allowance is known and documented, then I stand a chance to pose the argument.
Click to expand...

Jarrid,

You need to contact Justin/Clive Harrington, ibelieve it was one of them who gave the guys in NSW the documentation to allow them to run webers. Also.. do you have a copy of McGovens Classic Alpine.. that book has images of the 63 cars... they ran LM and i think targa florio or TdF and might have a shot of their engine bays with the DCOEs... as a side note.. the 63 racers used telescopic rears and had the S3 style adjustable steering column.. they were almosta hybrid SII/3
 
Eleven

Eleven

Platinum Level Sponsor
RootesRacer said:
I dont see what you found???

Are we under grp IV?

Skip the pertronics, points and almost ANY other electronic ignition are more accurate then that.
Click to expand...

Wasn't the point. First, download and read the entire set of rules. Sports cars appear to be Group IV and the rules are under Title VI. I don't know why it was written that way. Group 2 is series production and very restrictive, Group IV is looser.
 
R

RootesRacer

Donation Time
OK, I read it and agree that if the alpine was entered into group 4 that it could have run with the webers.

However I would imagine that alpines would have been embarrassed from all the other equally modified cars of the day.

Was this the case?

Thx all, I am going to shoot off an email to the eligibility officer with this info and see where it falls.
 
alpine_64

alpine_64

Donation Time
Jarrid,

i think the 63 cars that ran with the webers were quite quick.. but theyw ere probably at the limit of reliabilty and tended not to last the diatnce.. previous rootes campaigns had relied on the cars circulating consistently and being strong.. the 63 cars went for speed and tended to fail.

i guess many of those issues are sorted now.. different rods, better HG's etc.. If you can get the evidence you need to fit in an apporopriate class.. you could probably build quite a hammer of a motor.
 
Eleven

Eleven

Platinum Level Sponsor
RootesRacer said:
OK, I read it and agree that if the alpine was entered into group 4 that it could have run with the webers.

However I would imagine that alpines would have been embarrassed from all the other equally modified cars of the day.

Was this the case?

Thx all, I am going to shoot off an email to the eligibility officer with this info and see where it falls.
Click to expand...
Yeah, in reality, our cars got outclassed. Do what you can do and enjoy racing. There are many out here who are living vicariously through your efforts and would love to work on your car. Vintage racing is about the cars, have fun and enjoy, I wish I could race with you!!!!
 
sunbeam74

sunbeam74

Silver Level Sponsor
I don't think carburetion matter in the class the FIA placed the Alpine - GT9. I believe it was based on engine capacity. Recall, at Sebring the Alpine ran against the Porsche Abarth Carrera's (think that says it all right there...)

I think Rootes felt if it did well against the TVR's or the MGA's they were successful.

Steve
 
P

Paul Archer

Donation Time
Homologation paper for Alpine allows Webers

I have a copy of FIA recognition no 164 which is the homologation paper for Series IV Alpine (1964). This specifies carburettor as either Solex 32 OR Weber 40 DCOE2. So it is possible to prepare an Alpine to FIA specification using Webers. If fact my racing partner and I have been running with this configuration for the past couple of years. However we're about to switch back to an SCCA FP configuration, partly because we didn't see much of a performance improvement from the Webers.
 
alpine_64

alpine_64

Donation Time
Paul Archer said:
I have a copy of FIA recognition no 164 which is the homologation paper for Series IV Alpine (1964). This specifies carburettor as either Solex 32 OR Weber 40 DCOE2. So it is possible to prepare an Alpine to FIA specification using Webers. If fact my racing partner and I have been running with this configuration for the past couple of years. However we're about to switch back to an SCCA FP configuration, partly because we didn't see much of a performance improvement from the Webers.
Click to expand...

Paul,

Would it ve possible to get a scan of that paperwork? Or can you post it on the net?
 
R

RootesRacer

Donation Time
I'd love a copy of that too.

Now if you didnt notice a bunch of extra RPMs and high end power, something was horribly wrong.


Jarrid
 
Jim E

Jim E

Donation Time
Jarrid,
You going the Whole Hog motor? think it is going to take some serious displacment to beat those MGs, along with every other trick you can come up with.
 
R

RootesRacer

Donation Time
Jim E said:
Jarrid,
You going the Whole Hog motor? think it is going to take some serious displacment to beat those MGs, along with every other trick you can come up with.
Click to expand...

MGs usually fall into "E" production, and yes, the cheatin MGs are tough to beat.

I dont feel like racing with zeniths or stroms, I'd rather loose and have fun then be grossly under powered:)
 
SIVAllan

SIVAllan

Gold Level Sponsor
Paul Archer said:
I have a copy of FIA recognition no 164 which is the homologation paper for Series IV Alpine (1964). This specifies carburettor as either Solex 32 OR Weber 40 DCOE2. So it is possible to prepare an Alpine to FIA specification using Webers. If fact my racing partner and I have been running with this configuration for the past couple of years. However we're about to switch back to an SCCA FP configuration, partly because we didn't see much of a performance improvement from the Webers.
Click to expand...

Paul,

If possible for me to get a copy of a scan, please let me know :)

Allan
aballard "at" ix.netcom.com
 
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