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Engine Squeel part 2

Ron67Alpine

Ron67Alpine

Silver Level Sponsor
I may have located the problem. Chuck Ingram, suggested on another thread that the problem may be w/the distributor bushing. Based on that suggestion, the timing "bounce" and pulling the distributor was the easiest thing to do, I pulled the distributor. I discovered a good size crack, in the casing, right where the flange clamp goes around the distributor shaft housing. So, would I be correct, that this kind of damage is not repairable, and the distributor should be replaced, even if it's not the cause of the squeal?
Can anyone recomend an inexpensive replacement? I know the "Flame Thrower" IE distributor is around $200 and seems to be readiliy available.

Tom, is the inspection plate connected back to the oil pan by those 2 bars?

Ron
 
T

Tom H

Platinum Level Sponsor
Ron, yes, those support struts hold the inspection plate , but it is held to the bell housing, not to the oil pan. You can remove the inspection plate by removing the 4 bolts holding the struts to the bell housing and just loosening the 4 nuts that hold the struts to the oil pan.

Tom
 
R

RootesRacer

Donation Time
Ron67Alpine said:
I may have located the problem. Chuck Ingram, suggested on another thread that the problem may be w/the distributor bushing. Based on that suggestion, the timing "bounce" and pulling the distributor was the easiest thing to do, I pulled the distributor. I discovered a good size crack, in the casing, right where the flange clamp goes around the distributor shaft housing. So, would I be correct, that this kind of damage is not repairable, and the distributor should be replaced, even if it's not the cause of the squeal?
Can anyone recomend an inexpensive replacement? I know the "Flame Thrower" IE distributor is around $200 and seems to be readiliy available.

Tom, is the inspection plate connected back to the oil pan by those 2 bars?

Ron
Click to expand...

Any idea if the flame thrower dizzy has the right curve for the alpine?

I'll bet you no.

The primary market for that dizzy is the MGB crowd, for which it is undoubtedly curved towards.
 
Ron67Alpine

Ron67Alpine

Silver Level Sponsor
RootesRacer said:
Any idea if the flame thrower dizzy has the right curve for the alpine?

I'll bet you no.

The primary market for that dizzy is the MGB crowd, for which it is undoubtedly curved towards.
Click to expand...

No, I have no idea if it has the "right curve", whatever that is. The only thing I know, is that it cost's around $200 and is sold, for the Alpine, by both Sunbeam Specialties and Victoria British. I know VB doesn't have a very good rep, w/y'all, but SS is constantly being referenced as THE place to get parts. If I knew what I was doing, I wouldn't be asking for help and information.
Thanks
Ron
 
Jim E

Jim E

Donation Time
Seen several dizzys busted by the clamp that is supose to hold them in place, think this tends to happen if the thing is not seated well and/or is over tightened. On the busted ones I have seen they just have a bit broken off in the area the clamp touches and it has not effected the operation, unless it makes it so you cannot clamp the thing down tight. Were it me... I would buy beg or borrow a used Lucas and drop it in to see if it makes a difference, before sprining for the new unit.
 
Ron67Alpine

Ron67Alpine

Silver Level Sponsor
Thanks for the thought, Jim. Since I have no idea of this cars history, I really can't say, how the dizzy got cracked. The metal where the crack is located, seems to have been bent in, by the clamp. When I was trying to set the timing, the distributor was very stiff, and wouldn't turn correctly. So even w/out the bouncing timing mark, I couldn't get it to adjust. I did run the "bouncing" timing mark by a buddy, that has a lot of general mechaical knowledge, and also owns several Alpines as well as other vehicles of this era. When I mentioned the timing mark bounces, between TDC and 4-6* BTDC, he brought up the distributor bearing. I think he mentioned something about "scattering". Then when I asked about the squealing, he thought this confirmed it. His surety along w/Chucks suggestion, is another reason I'm looking at the distributor as the major culpret.
He may have a distributor, I could borrow or buy, but his stash isn't very convenient and I could be waiting a long time, for him to remember to check. While waiting there would be no progress. No progress, makes me depressed. He did tell me that he had a period machine that would diagnose distributor problems, so I'll be taking it to him, to varify, maybe when I get off work, today. Since so many of y'all recommend electronic ignition, I thought this may be a good time to upgrade, the distributor, rather than install an upgrade for the stock, lord-of-darkness, distributor. I think this may be the last Lucas part to exorsize. I'd prefer to line up information, before I really need it, rather than need it and have to wait for it. So any suggestions for a possible replacement, if really needed?
Ron
I just remembered, that the guy I had paint my Alpine, has an SV rotting in his yard. Maybe I could check that out...I still own him a case of beer, for a few other pieces he let me have, might be a good reason to deliver it.
 
Jim E

Jim E

Donation Time
You might try some oil on the dizzy just to see if that shuts it up, thinking they are supose to be oiled under where the rotor snaps in place. I am just saying this to see if you can make it change what it is doing to help with the trouble shooting.
 
M

mikephillips

Donation Time
Take the base plate where the points and condensor are off instead. I don't think you can get enough oil down throught the center of the shaft since it's not hollow, it's intended to oil the pivot with a few drops where the 2 sections of shaft meet at the advance weights. The plate comes out with 2 screws and a pin to hold the arm from the vacuum advance. Then put a small amount in the bottom of the distributor and allow it to stand upright for awhile, should run down the lower part of the shaft around the bronze bushings. Be aware some distributors have a small drain hole under the weights, you'll have to temporarly cover or plug it from the outside to keep the oil from running out.
 
Ron67Alpine

Ron67Alpine

Silver Level Sponsor
Jim, that was going to be one of the things, I was going to do, before pulling it. I was thinking that it would somehow oil the shaft and bearing. Right now, it doesn't make much sense to try and diagnose it.
I have 2 good lines on a used replacement distributor. The Alpine at the paint shop, and my buddy Dean says he has a couple of SV distributors, in his stash. I have off work on Wendsday, so was going to see if I can pull the one @ the paint shop. I'll take that one, as well as my own, and have Dean run both on his machine. If the one I pulled, is good, I'll use that. If not Dean can get me one of his. In either case, I'll make sure to oil the bearings. Mike, that seems like a good way of making sure the bearing is oiled. Instead of plugging holes and pouring oil down the shaft, could you just immerse the shaft, up to the distributor casing in oil, for a day or so, then let it drain back out?
I'll let y'all know the test results and if the replacement kills the squeal and stops the timing bounce.
I'm still interested in recomendations, for an IE replacement. Oh yeah, I talked to one of the guys at SS, about the "Flame Thrower", he said what they had was right for the Alpine.
I'll also make sure I pull the clutch inspection plate, There may be something not right in there, not related to the squeal.
Thanks for the help
Ron
Oh, BTW, just found a new problem. I've got a bad brake line leak. It's leaking from the brass ferulle, which attaches to the new flex-line to the RR cylinder. It looks like it's leaking from the flair or there's a tear in the line going into the ferrule. Might be a good time to put in a T fitting and split up the rear brakes. But that's for another thread.
 
Ron67Alpine

Ron67Alpine

Silver Level Sponsor
It's been awhile since I updated this thread. I'm still trying to track down the squeal. I went up to the paint shop and pulled the distributor from the car thats been rotting away. After I removed it I noticed it didn't have a vacuum advance, but thought if it was good I could replace it w/the VA from mine. Took both dizzies to my buddy for his evaluation. The points plate from the dizzy w/o advance was rusted solid, the shaft on mine was so loose that you could hold the rotor immobile and still rotate the shaft a good 10*. Dean didn't want to put it on his diagnostic machine because he was afraid it would fail on testing. He sold me one from his stash for $60 and I installed it w/o a problem. My timing mark is no longer bouncing but still had the squeal. Removed the clutch inspection plate and there was nothing in there that was rubbing. Started looking around for other causes and found one of the exhaust manifold to downpipe holes was striped and replaced it w/a longer bolt and nut, still had the squeal. I decided to put the search on the back burner for a bit and worked on other issues. Today I removed the oil pan to see if there was any debris in it that may indicate a severe problem in the engine. Oil was a little gritty to feel but I could not see any shavings in the oil. A cursory look up into the engine didn't indicate anything major going on up there. I called Dean, to let him know that the dizzy was working good, but still had the squeal. He suggested maybe looking @ the oil pump. I removed and disassembled the OP and took it to his shop, to see if he had anything to say. He saw a bit of scoring on the "hocky puck" thing and suggested I take a bit of 2000 grit paper to smooth it out a bit. That's about where I'm at now. There was a bit of sludge in the pan as well as some rust. I've boiled the oil pan & pump and am preping the pan for repaint. When I get the pan painted I'll reassemble and see if I still have the noise. If I still have it, about the only thing I can think of now is maybe when I put the intake and exhaust manifolds on I didn't torque them down well enough, so maybe I'm getting some vibration/rubbing there. Well, that's about it. I hope everyone had a great turkey-day.
Ron
 
R

RootesRacer

Donation Time
Though this has never happened to me, I've hear from several sources that some chain rubbing blocks expand terribly when the oil soaks in.

Enough to cause the rubbing block to fail.

This could cause such a noise I suppose.
 
Ron67Alpine

Ron67Alpine

Silver Level Sponsor
Cool, thanks RootesRacer. It looks like I have a bit of a leak from that area, so it is on my list to look at. Haven't I read something about a mod that needs to be done, when I'm in there?
Ron
 
R

RootesRacer

Donation Time
Well if you have the time and the gumption, there is the chevy front oil seal mod, also there is a modification to reduce the amount of oil that sprays on the rubbing block (increases oil pressure and gives faster oil pressure build).
 
R

RootesRacer

Donation Time
Jim Stone said:
I don't recall seeing that one in the past. What is it?
Click to expand...

Its crimping down on the tube end of the rubbing block squirter.

Makes the jet orifice smaller.

Keeps the oil sent to the inside of the timing cover to a smaller amount which reduces the oil that makes its way out the scroll seal.

Also you want to make sure the spring and ball are correctly installed and clean.
 
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