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Electric Fan

Green67Alpine

Former SAOCA Membership Director
Platinum Level Sponsor
I know this has been covered many times, but I never printed it out. On a stock 67 Alpine a 10 inch electric should do it correct? What about 2- 8 inchers since as much of the coil should be covered as possible..:confused:
Thanks for the comments, Tom J

Ever Challenging Series V
 

ozzie alpine

Bronze Level Sponsor
Hi Tom,
I asked this question directly to DaviesCraig (aussie electric fan manufacturer), similar application, but a different car.
Their recommendation was to use a single 10" rather than 2 x 8". The reason is that, proportionally, the motor diameter/fan diameter ratio is better for the 10" (the 8" motors are not much smaller, but the blades are), and having 2 x 8" fans will actually "block" airflow through the radiator, particularly when they are not operating (ie highway use). They said that using 2 of their 9" fans would be the best solution (better motor/fan ratio), but they wouldn't fit.
This was for their own fans of course, and other manufacturers may have 8" fans of higher efficiency... I reckon that a single 10" fan would be fine for the Alpine, and that is what I have just fitted (but not yet tried, plenty left to do!...)
 

Green67Alpine

Former SAOCA Membership Director
Platinum Level Sponsor
Thanks Dave, I'm going to go that route also, Did you use a shroud to cover the rest of the core? How 'bout blocking the horn "holes" the improve the ram effect? If I remember correctly:rolleyes: the stock fan can now be removed:confused:

Thanks again, Tom J


Ever Challenging Series V
 

ozzie alpine

Bronze Level Sponsor
Hi Tom,
I haven't got that far yet! I may block the horn holes, but I will at least try and seal the top, bottom and sides of the radiator itself. I don't think a shroud will be necessary, but I will endeavour to minimise by-passing of air around the radiator.
On the "other car" (Ginetta), simply stuffing some foam around the radiator to ensure no by-passing made a big difference to cooling.
The stock fan can be removed, but I have a lovely chrome one and I might just keep it for looks...

As an aside, I may try a "Revotec" fan switching device (from Demon Tweeks in the UK). Its an alloy in-line hose fitting, with an adjustable thermostat, as an alternative to the usual in-hose capilliary thingy, or manual on-off switch.
 

ozzie alpine

Bronze Level Sponsor
just found the original email advice from DaviesCraig....

"Generally 1 fan is better than 2 -- eg.1 x 9" fan is better than 2 x 8"
fans especially for small size fans as the free airflow area is heavily
influenced by motor footprint. However in your instance the radiator size is
a real limitation. It would be great if you could 'squeeze-in' 2 x 9" fans -
our part # 0060.
If I can be of further assistance please let me know.
Best Regards,
Ray Brown
Technical and Marketing Director,
Davies,Craig Pty. Ltd"
 

Nickodell

Donation Time
Tom: I've been beating the electric fan drum for many years. You only have to look at any car manufactured in the past decade or so - all fitted with electric fans - to see that the mechanical fan belongs in the dustbin of history. They work inefficiently when you need them most - stationary or moving slowly - and scream away wasting fuel when you need them least - highway speeds where ram effect usually provides all the cooling you need. They also increase fan belt and water pump bearing wear.

I fitted a 10" one many years ago and it never comes on when moving over 40 mph even on 90 degree (32 edeg C to you) days. It is important to fit a thermostat so that you don't have to keep checking the temp gauge in slow traffic, and an override switch in case the thermo quits (my first one did).

I have a small LED on the dashboard that lights up when the fan comes on. Ironically, when moving over 50 mph the light glows faintly, showing that ram effect is turning the fan, generating electricity and putting a bit back in the battery :)
 

64beam

Donation Time
Hi Forum,

I have been looking at the option of two 9" electric fans and as Dave and Tom have stated the area to fit them is very tight (approximately 19" to be exact). The fans should fit (one up and on down slightly) with the fan cowlings just touching. This is due to the way the radiator opening was made, the other option being some remodelling of the radiator support panel. I will take some photos once I get my radiator repaired and back home (hopefully this weekend).

Regards, Robin.
 

Green67Alpine

Former SAOCA Membership Director
Platinum Level Sponsor
Hi All, How are the fan projects going ? I've now got a 10" fan ready to install soon, I am thinking of just using a switch, but it was recommended to install a relay in the circuit:eek: are the ones that cost under $5 going to work? The motor draws less than 10 amps these relays state 30 amps and up, I've got a guy to help with the hook up but I'd like to have the parts here when he stops by..
Thanks for the input, Tom J

Ever Challenging Series V
I'll get this vehicle back on the road if it's the next to the last thing I ever do!
 

64beam

Donation Time
Hi All, How are the fan projects going ? I've now got a 10" fan ready to install soon, I am thinking of just using a switch, but it was recommended to install a relay in the circuit:eek: are the ones that cost under $5 going to work? The motor draws less than 10 amps these relays state 30 amps and up, I've got a guy to help with the hook up but I'd like to have the parts here when he stops by..
Thanks for the input, Tom J

Ever Challenging Series V
I'll get this vehicle back on the road if it's the next to the last thing I ever do!

Hi Tom,

If you have a look on www.daviescraig.com.au and go to tech info, then click on thermal switches and click on 0404 thermal switch and relay then click on the instructions. It will come up with a PDF document which has a drawing on how to wire it. Use drawing number 2 and replace the thermal switch with a normal switch if you are going that way. It is a very straight forward circuit.
You only really need a 20Amp general automotive relay, but if you have a 30Amp relay that's fine.

Good luck,

Regards, Robin.
 

Green67Alpine

Former SAOCA Membership Director
Platinum Level Sponsor
Thanks Robin, With the Davies wiring diagram it does look pretty straight forward.. appreciate the help. Tom J
 

Nickodell

Donation Time
Since I had my radiator out for repair I decided to fit a thermal switch to replace the one that I originally had. The most common ones people use with electric fans are probes that you either stick between the radiator fins or place under the top hose. I don't like either choice as both seem a bit Mickey Mouse, and the one I stuck into my ratiator fins was what ultimately caused the leak necessitating removing the rad. for repair. So I'm going with a thermal switch plumbed into the radiator itself.

The pictures (sorry about the quality. I am going to buy a better digital camera. Tomorrow!) show:

Rotary wire-brushed area;
Pic035.jpg


7/16" hole bored to allow sensor bulb to enter rad. header slightly
Pic038.jpg


Threaded collar soldered in place over hole;
Pic039.jpg


Thermal switch in place, sealed with teflon tape.
Pic041.jpg


The last stage will be a general clean-up and repaint.

The thermal switch I used is pre-set to turn the fan on at 190 deg. F, and off at 180.
 

64beam

Donation Time
Hi Nick,

Good work! Just one query though, would the fan switch be better in the bottom/lower header tank or do the late model cars install them in the top header tank? The lower tank would then garantee the sensor is fully immersed in water.

Regards, Robin.
 

Wombat

Donation Time
Robin,

I have been doing some research on this to find a similar switch from a common car for my alpine. I have only checked on two cars so far but one had the switch in the thermostat housing and the other in the hot radiator tank of a crossflow radiator. The common theme seems to be that the measurement is made on the hot side of the radiator.

Once you get to injected cars, the fans seem to be controlled by the black box.
 

Nickodell

Donation Time
Hi, Robin. With a cut-in temperature of 190 degrees, if you fitted the switch in the bottom tank, where the coolant has already dropped in temperature, by the time the fan came on you'd already be overheated. You need the sensor where the temp. is highest, same as the temperature gauge sensor. As the bulb is some 1" below the bottom of the filler neck I don't envisage any problems with its being in contact with the coolant.
 

64beam

Donation Time
Robin,

I have been doing some research on this to find a similar switch from a common car for my alpine. I have only checked on two cars so far but one had the switch in the thermostat housing and the other in the hot radiator tank of a crossflow radiator. The common theme seems to be that the measurement is made on the hot side of the radiator.

Once you get to injected cars, the fans seem to be controlled by the black box.

Hi Robert,

I went down to the local Autobahn store last week to check out some thermo fan switches myself. What I found is that they are not cheap, starting at about AUS$60. I think I will go with the switch that Dave (ozziealpine) suggested from the UK. I will make up an adaptor this weekend.

Regards, Robin.
 

61Alpine

Silver Level Sponsor
How about attaching the switch to the temp sending unit. That would seem to me to be the highest temp location.
 

Wombat

Donation Time
Electric fans and switches seem to generate discussion everywhere:

http://www.fastlane.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5301

I am guessing the fitting for the top hose mentioned here is similar to what Dave (ozziealpine) is talking about.

On this thread:

http://toymods.net/forums/showthread.php?t=5125

are photos of the Tridon thermoswitch catalogue pages (WARNING, lots of images may be slow to load). There are about 50 different types and all bar one have operating temperatures 80 deg C or above. The odd one out switches on at 50 C and off ar 45 C. This one must be for the cold side of the radiator (or something else entirely!!)

Unfortunately they did not include the pages of the catalogue that show what switch fits which car. :( Would have made it easier to find one in a wrecking yard.

The temp sending unit is the highest temperature location, but on its own won't switch a fan. If the car has the stock instrument voltage regulator, the current here is pulsed. Maybe with one of the electronic stabilizers (from coolsunbeam??) a tame electronics wizard may be able to make up a box that measures the current in the circuit and switches a fan.

The possibilites are endless!!

Might just put a switch in the dashboard like I did with my old Hillman.
 

64beam

Donation Time
Hi Robert,

There is no question that it could be done electronically and probably has. All it would require is a circuit that reads the resistance/voltage as the temperature changes and trigger a relay to switch the fans on. This is probably similar to the electronic fan controller by revotec that Dave (ozziealpine) was considering. If you are after a fan switch go to Repco, etc and get the model type for the one you want, then go to the wreckers. The temperature sender has got me thinking now ;) , I'll get back to you on this.

Regards, Robin.
 

Nickodell

Donation Time
I think what Rob was suggesting was to use a plumbing fixture with one male (to go in the hole) and two female pipe threads. The male would be screwed into the hole for the temp sending unit and the two threaded outlets used to mount both temp sender and fan operating switch on the fitting.

I obtained my thermostatic fan switch from Partzfinder.com, $25.
 

Wombat

Donation Time
I think what Rob was suggesting was to use a plumbing fixture with one male (to go in the hole) and two female pipe threads. The male would be screwed into the hole for the temp sending unit and the two threaded outlets used to mount both temp sender and fan operating switch on the fitting.

I obtained my thermostatic fan switch from Partzfinder.com, $25.

Simple, reversible, cheap and now it is on the table makes me wonder why I didn't think of that.

Only downside that I can think of is that the sensors will be in a "dead end" without water flowing past them and maybe bleeding air out of it in the first fill.
 
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