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Determining if the frame can or needs to be restored

spudman5

Donation Time
I have my engine out of my SV and I planned on sandblasting and painting the engine compartment. I knew my car had some body damage (been hit in the front, rust areas, etc) so I looked more at what problems I might face. I have some small rusted out area low rear areas of the fender, pin holes in the floor boards, larger holes in trunk, etc. All of which I know is normal and repairable.

The rest of the sheet metal is in reasonably good shape and was sandblasted, undercoated, and painted before before being parked in the previous owners garage in the mid-80's as a project never completed.

What I have a concern about is some damage to the frame in the engine compartment and in the front part of the X-frame under the body (and maybe other areas I'm not aware of). The front "U" part of the frame in the engine compartment looks straight, but on the left side of the car, there is some damage to the frame part that sits on top of the "U" and comes up along the fender. There is also some damage to the part of the underbody "X" under the left front side of the car. I have driven the car some (100 miles) and it seems to be okay, but I know that doesn't always point to a good frame.

I can handle the mechanical issues, and body damage is usually only cosmetic can can be covered or replaced with new sheet metal. But I don't have any experience in dealing with frame damage.

So far, all of the resortation work I have done can easily be transferred to another car so it isn't a waste of time. However, before I start doing any body or frame work, I want to make sure it is viable to be restored and won't cost more than it is worth. Is this something that a typical body shop could look at and give advice or do I need to go to a more specialized restoration shop. I live in the Northwest suburbs of Chicago so if anyone knows of a shop or an Alpine expert in the area, that would be great. I tried taking some pictures, but it is not easy to show bent metal with pictures.

As can be seen in the under body pictures, the front scalloped section is bent up and the cross part of the 'X' is concaved instead of flat.
In the engine compartment pictures there are indications of a front left impact: the front lower section by where the horn mounts is wrinkled and the bracket on the fender for the for the firewall to fender stiffner is bent.

Thanks,
Mike Tanner
 

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Cactusmasher

Donation Time
Frame damage

Looks like your Alpine took a pretty good lick on the left front. Whoever repaired it did not complete the job and the visible damage would indicate that maybe there's some hidden damage inside the body work. Could have been a sheet metal damage only accident, but with the left fender brace bent along with the other damage, I don't think so. There is no frame to an Alpine in the normal sense, that is the body can be separated from a frame. Alpines are of unibody design so you would want to have it looked at by a shop that specializes in unibody work. Most cars today are unibody, so there's a lot of that kind of shop around. Body measurements and specs are available...I am sure that most unibody shops would not have that information on a 40+ year old British car. The good news is that it is probably repairable....the bad news is that it probably wouldn't be cheap. Measure your wheel base on both sides to see if it is the same. If it isn't exactly the same, the whole body could have been pushed cockeyed by the accident damage. The lumps and bumps on the crossmember under the car are fairly normal, caused by running over any number of things on and off road. I have owned 3 Tigers and 12 Alpines. I have never seen one that was completely straight with no bumps or lumps on the crossmember. I'm sure that other members will chime in on your posting. Good luck and keep us posted on what you find out, what you do with or to your Alpine.
 

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
Mike, it is almost impossible not to have more in repairs than an Alpine is worth. There is just no real market for these cars. If you want to fix the car because you want an Alpine, fine. Just do not think you can sell the car for what you have in it.

Looking at things a slightly different way, the car is probably not worth fixing. Estimate how much it would cost to fix the damage, then compare that to what a straight, rust free body will cost. They are out there, but probably not in the Chicago area.

Bill
 

todd reid

Gold Level Sponsor
determining if frame can or needs to be restored

Mike,
I am basically going to tell you what Jim did, but with a different slant.

1. If you want a concourse car sell this one and move on. If you are looking for a fun car/good driver go to step 2.

2. The important thing to determine is if all four tires are in the correct place - in relation to the body, and to each other. This will require a series of measurements as Jim described. There are body shops with "frame" straightening equipment that can assist with the measuring and also give you an estimate to repair anything they find out of whack. I would not spend a lot to staighten this car unless you are emotionally attached to it. If things are already straight, then leave them alone. The only thing to be aware of is that in the event of a front end impact, your car may provide even less protection than other Alpines because it is pre-bent (this would not bother me - any car this age is a death trap compared to a modern car).

3. I agree that your X-brace looks pretty normal, The thing to be concerned about here is rust, which can weaken the structure. A few dents and gouges are to be expected after 45+ years.

Best of luck to you!
 

RootesRooter

Donation Time
Your x-frame looks a little lumpy, but not really that bad.

For overall body rigidity, have you jacked up the car yet at each stock jacking point and tried to open the doors?

My old MK II Tiger was schmucked the same way on the passenger side, putting an identical bend in the frame rail. The repairs by the PO looked good when I bought it - until a boat fell on the fender and revealed extensive Bondo averaging 1/8" thick.

I recommend carefully checking the front crossmember for cracks, particularly near the a-arm attachment points.
 

alpine_64

Donation Time
The innner guard looks concerning, the fact that even the suttle brace hat on the guard is so bent means that has been a serious hit. To be honest you say that most of the work can be transfered to another car.. unless you are prepared to unpic the front left and replace.. or spend a lot of time with some chains and a puller.. or have access to a chassis rig.. i think find another body... will probably be a lot faster and cheaper... just make sure body #2 is an honest one.
 

spudman5

Donation Time
Thank you for the information. I'll start by finding a local body shop, preferably one with some classic restoration experience and see what they think the damage is and the cost to repair.
It also looks like I'll step up my efforts to find another SV. I had been thinking of finding a parts car, but now maybe my current car will be my parts car. And can one ever have too many Alpines?
Does anyone know of any SVs that are for sale within a reasonable drive time of Chicago?

I'll post when I get my SV looked at what is found.

Thanks,
Mike Tanner
 

Bikesandfires

Donation Time
Mike, if you've driven the car 100 miles and it doesn't seem to have any handling issues, I wouldn't get tooo excited about the damage. The frame damage is normal and expected..just like everyone else is saying. It looks like the other damage is all in front of any suspension attachment points. You may have to massage things a little to get decent hood, fender and valance fitment and the frame horn may need some persuasion to accept the bumper...but all in all....I'd fix it and have fun. Frame shops here in Ky are charging around a $100 an hour....A decent one should be able to check yours in a couple of hours or less..and probably straighten it in less than 2 more hours.
 
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