Clutch choices SII

[ozzie alpine]

Hi everyone, its been a while, but I'm still Sunbeaming around northern Australia.
I'm planning activities for our upcoming tropical Wet Season (the traditional time for vehicle layup and major works) and this year's project is to improve the clutch.

I want to work out how best to configure a nice light, yet decently strong clutch.
Its a Series II , fitted with a 1725 block and synchro-box, but it still uses a SII clutch/flywheel etc.
Current clutch (coil spring type) is very heavy and very juddery, so its time to sort it out.

A few years ago I did fit a new "Borg and Beck-type" clutch cover, unsuccessfully..... It worked really well (nice and light and smooth) for about 2 miles, and then failed. One of the 3 cast "levers", that operate the pressure plate, failed. At the time I thought it was a faulty unit, and unsuccessfully argued with the (Australian) supplier; I ended up putting my original clutch back in and its been there ever since, gradually getting more juddery, while I put the failed unit back on the shelf in disgust.
I am now wondering if the error was mine and perhaps it was not properly matched to my clutch release arm. I now realise that there are different length "pedestals" and perhaps the supplied clutch was intended for a different series.

Anyway, the bottom line is that I need to fit a new clutch cover assembly, and I am prepared to modify other parts of the clutch mechanism if required.
I guess I have a number of options, eg:
- Just fit an exchange SII coil spring clutch cover and hope that its better than my current one (but where do I find one in Australia?)
- Try exchange my "new" but failed clutch for another from the same supplier, and this time be more careful matching the release arm, in case that is what caused the failure.
- Fit an alternative cover and associated parts - eg volvo or MGB. I'm very happy to try this, if its relatively easy to source parts and results in a nice clutch mechanism.

Thoughts please?

I am actually currently in the UK for a few weeks, so could potentially source some parts over here before I head back to Oz (I have plenty of baggage allowance ;-)

thanks
Dave

 

[George Coleman]

MGB pressure plate and a Volvo disc 8inch works great on the early Alpines. I have used this combination for years, the release bearing can be used from old Alpine that's the carbon one, but I used a MGB roller bearing early. I see you are using 1725 if you are using the 7.5 clutch then just change back to the early Alpine flywheel.

 

[ALC 68A]

Dave - welcome to the UK from a local Alpiner. As I expect you know, Alpines with the three synchro gearbox use an 8 inch clutch plate and a 7 1/2 inch plate with the four synchro gearbox and that they changed from spring to diaphragm pressure plates part way through SIII. I bought my SIII (currently under restoration) already fitted with an SV overdrive gearbox and SIII 8 inch spring clutch and it ran without any problems, so they are interchangeable.

Presumably, your car uses the original SII clutch and as it ran with the later type box, the set-up you had was compatible but is now worn out. Therefore, I should have thought the easiest option would be to get a replacement of the same type while you are in the UK. There are several suppliers of spares who could help you. Specific Alpine spares suppliers are listed on the British Sunbeam Alpine Owners Club website. They all mainly sell via mail order so if you want to make a personal visit, you have to telephone first to arrange an appointment. However, they are all helpful people, so if you call them to discuss your clutch problem, they should be able to point you in the right direction. There is also Speedy Spares in Portslade near Brighton, which is an old fashioned walk-in spares shop with a good stock of old Rootes parts.

I'm going on a visit to Australia in October. Are there many Alpine owners there?

Steve G

 

[ozzie alpine]

Thanks Steve (and George too)
Yes the easiest option is probably a direct replacement of the same type, I'll talk to the local suppliers here.
I am interested in the MGB version though. What's the benefit, is it simply cost/availability or does the diaphragm type lead to a lighter clutch action than the spring-type? My current clutch is very heavy. I believe that my hydraulics are correct/matching so its the pressure plate not the cylinders. I'm not sure what a good spring-type clutch is supposed to feel like!
(I live in Darwin in the remote north of Australia, the nearest Alpine is a good 3000km away so its hard to test another! There are a few around "down south" though, ie in the major cities. Steve, where are you headed?)

 

[George Coleman]

The MGB pressure plate gives a lighter pedal I think, and is easy to come by. By the way the MGA clutch disc will work as well , I guess the reason I list this is that the MG stuff is easier to get than trying to find Alpine stuff!

 

[ALC 68A]

Hi Dave. The standard spring clutch on my SIII doesn't have an excessively heavy action, so perhaps the problem with yours is just caused by wear and tear. But, according to the Sunbeam Specialities catalogue, the Series II/III pressure plate will accept an 8 1/2" centre plate, so perhaps that would give an easier action?

According to the parts list, there were five different clutches fitted to Alpines:
An 8" spring clutch on Series I;
A different 8" spring clutch on Series II/III up to SIII chassis no. B9204717
An 8" diaphragm clutch from Series III chassis no. B9204718 up to the end of Series IV. However, the same centre plate and operating lever continued in use, although the carbon release bearing changed.
A 7 1/2" diaphragm clutch,with a different operating lever, from the introduction of the four syncho gearbox on the Series IVA up to Series V B395017308;
A 7 1/2" diaphragm clutch with 25 splines on Series V from B395017309 to the end of production.

The bell housings didn't change, but the flywheel was changed when the four synchro gearbox was introduced. Therefore, you should be able to change your car over to the 8" diaphragm clutch without modifying the operating mechanism, provided you change the carbon release bearing too. However, if you want to use the 7 1/2" type, you would have to change the lever and flywheel as well.

Our trip to Australia starts in Tasmania, where I have a cousin in Launceston. We then visit Sydney; Cairns/Port Duncan; Alice Springs/Uluru and Perth, from where we fly back to the UK. Unfortunately, we don't have enough time to go as far as Darwin, although I would have liked to.

Steve

 

[jdoclogan]

Steve,
Yes, there are wonderful Alpiners in Australia. I met several while attending the Philips Island Vintage races near Melbourne. The highlight of the trip was touring the Great Ocean Road in Michael King's Series II with my wife. This all came together when Michael posted a Vance Joy musical video

We subsequently became great friends sharing the Sunbeam passion.
I also obtained some Sunbeam Car Club of Victoria regalia http://www.sunbeamcarclubvictoria.com.au/.
Here they have links to all the Australian Sunbeam Clubs in the various Provinces.

 

[ALC 68A]

Jdoclogan - I've not previously heard of Vance Joy, but it's a good video. Thanks for posting. I haven't ever seen any others featuring Alpines. Unfortunately, our itinerary doesn't include the state of Victoria, but we are going to Sydney in New South Wales and Port Douglas in Queensland, so I could drop an email to the contacts for those two clubs. It's nice to know that there are flourishing Sunbeam clubs so far away. Britain used to have a good business exporting its cars and other products all over the world. What went wrong?