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Carroll Shelby Tribute - Why not have a Tiger too?

Discussion in 'Sunbeam Tiger' started by DanR, May 17, 2018.

  1. DanR

    DanR Diamond Level Sponsor

    Here is an event coming up May 19

    http://www.carrollshelbytribute.com/

    I went to their site and saw a picture of the Shelby Fords and Nothing but Fords.... Not a Sunbeam in sight. If I had a Tiger I'd be there for a real show.... A Tiger for all to see!
     
  2. SIVAllan

    SIVAllan Gold Level Sponsor

    I doubt that Shelby personally wrenched together his AC Cobra prototypes either. But the experience in adapting a Ford 260 into the Ace must have been invaluable in fab'ing up a decent 260 Alpine prototype.
     
  3. alpine_64

    alpine_64 Donation Time

    Mike, i agree shelby was not " hands on" but his company certainly did the " refined" prototype and gave some decent intial foundations for production.

    He did develop and race the first factory supported scca car and did provide engines for the LM cars and of course offered go faster bits from his tunning arm.

    He also offically bid to produce the cars... Though obviously that never went ahead.
     
  4. SIVAllan

    SIVAllan Gold Level Sponsor

    "...in one of several ads in which he endorsed the Ford V-8 powered Sunbeam Tiger. Shelby also sold Tigers in his dealership..."

    "...After his work developing the prototype, Shelby intended to take over production as he has done with AC and the Cobra. Unfortunately for him the Rootes Group had other ideas, and so from 1964 until 1967 they had Jensen build the Tiger and instead paid Shelby a royalty on each one. ..."


    "...This 1963 Sunbeam Tiger is claimed to be an early prototype that a who’s-who of drivers and engineers including George Boskoff, Phil Remington and Ken Miles built in Carroll Shelby’s Venice, California shop.

    It's silly to discount the role of Shelby and his firm in Tiger development by claiming some nonsense about wrench time. I heard Boskoff at the C.A.T. meeting in Big Bear, and the white Tiger prototype was displayed and driven for a lap around the autocross circuit. No way the Tiger would have happened without prototype development by the Shelby firm and subsequent involvement.

    Subsequent to development, Shelby and his firm's involvement was not extensive but was not nonexistent.
     

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    Last edited: May 21, 2018
  5. Warren

    Warren Silver Level Sponsor

    Been to this event a couple years back and they waived me inside with the GT 40s . I was really nervous turning and parking next to cars that cost more than a lot of So. Cal homes. This year it was on Tigers United weekend. Great group of guys there and I've been welcomed with open arms despite being a outside member from another club. We do have other crossover members that I've seen there on a Palos Verdes Drive they sponsored. One of my neighbors has a GT40 , M1 BMW and several others but sometimes drives his Tiger to a local event.
    Well said Alan and Michael.
     
  6. jdoclogan

    jdoclogan Platinum Level Sponsor

    In 2004 I listened to both George Boskoff and Carroll Shelby, sitting side-by-side, at the SUNI IV's banquet dinner in Park City, Utah. They both were encouraged by the MC to share the construction story of the prototype Tiger. Shelby spoke of the Rootes Group's interest in a prototype and his acceptance of the challenge. Boskoff spoke of the actual construction process. Boskoff said, "On Monday morning I entered the shop when Carroll came to me and said, "I want you to take that Alpine over in the corner and put that 260 V8 in it by the end of the week." I worked long hours on the task and never saw him (Shelby) again until Wednesday. Carroll looked at the progress, gave me some very important pointers for moving forward on the project, and I never saw him again until Friday. We continued to make adjustments but that was pretty much the one week prototype construction." Then, with mutual admiration and respect they both laughed as they recognized that Shelby had an engineer's input, but, Boskoff did the wrenching, fabrication, and thoughtful/skillful implementation of Shelby's vision. A precious memory of the first person accounts on the prototype Tiger's build.
     
  7. DanR

    DanR Diamond Level Sponsor

    J Doc, I started this thread because of the "lack" of the Tiger recognition by the Shelby Tribute or so it seemed to me when I read their site....

    Many thanks for your contribution to this Thread :
    Carroll Shelby Tribute - Why not have a Tiger too?

    I do not own a Tiger & never have, even thought a dealer in Charleston had a few on display back in '65-'66 when I took a long look at them:) Should have taken the plunge and made that purchase Huh? I have driven only one or two in my life, one of which was recently (65Sunbeam's) a real pleasure. It handled nicely, just as you would think a Tiger should.

    I stand amazed at times of owners of the Fords that Carroll Shelby had design influence and even the Cobra, yet little to nothing of the Tiger.

    Today I attended the Great Scot British Car Show at Furman University, Greenville, SC along with my fellow Sunbeam Guys &Gals.... Had a great time too!

    Lots of folks visiting came by my Blue Boy V6 asking lots of questions and making comments. Nearly all were amazed of the way the 2.8 V6 fit in the engine compartment. Tight they said but neat!

    Some commented about formerly owning an Alpine or a Tiger. Others knew nothing of the Sunbeam Alpine or the Tiger. But nearly everyone had good comments of the Alpine design and appeal.

    I would like to hear more of the Shelby Tribute and if there were any Tiger owners recognized....

     
  8. alpine_64

    alpine_64 Donation Time

    A few additions for the narrative ..

    Another ad with carroll promoting his role in the tiger.

    And shots of the shekby run scca tiger that later sports car forum would take over.

    images.jpeg images.jpeg mortonseptimage1-94.jpg mortonseptimage1-94.jpg 17522612_10213032985606335_5333249013472403871_n.jpg 17522612_10213032985606335_5333249013472403871_n.jpg
     
  9. fonz

    fonz Donation Time

    then it Should be a show for KEN MILES, He actually made the 1st sunbeam w/289 a long time before his "best friend" stole the glory and the $$. Same thing for the GT40. MILES designed, built and tested all of them, shelby just took all the Credit and money ! shelby just took the glory and the Money !
     
  10. Barry

    Barry Platinum Level Sponsor




    You are a little late; the show took place over two years ago.
     
  11. alpine_64

    alpine_64 Donation Time

    Fonz,

    As you are new to the sunbeam world.. It might be worth doing a little more reading on the evolution of the Tiger before declaring a bunch of inaccurate and misleading statements on them...

    For starters the Miles car was not "the 1st sunbeam w/289 a long time before his "best friend" stole the glory and the $$."

    Garrard commissioned shelby to build and develop a prototype v8 sunbeam that would be a pattern for a production based Sunbeam V8. This was done under the radar of rootes in the UK and paid for from the marketing and advertising budget.

    Garrard getting impatient about his performance sunbeam and wanting a quick "lets see what the power in the car is like" commissioned Ken Miles to build a quick " proof of concept" car... It was the second car commisioned and not as a production prototype just quick engine swap no attempt at a production ready or sorted car. It was competed in a bit over a week and Ken was paid for it per his agreement....no stolen work, concept or production.

    He used a second hand 260 motor and auto trans with minimal mods to make it fit.

    The shelby car was started first and was an actual prototype to set a pattern for a production car. Where you get the "long time before" is also puzzling.... What do you consider a long time... Look at the total time it took from start to finsih of the shelby car... And from Garards intial idea to production... Nothing about the Tiger took a long time.

    Miles was a great driver and mechanic, he developed and raced Alpines with factory support in the states in the early 60s. He raced Tigers in scca BP both as a guest in the SCF Tiger when it was still the car shelby developed for SCCA BP before being totalled at Nassau and in his "red 50" BP car.

    Its nice to give Ken some credit.. But in regards to your comments about his Tiger involvement you got about everything wrong.....
     
  12. Warren

    Warren Silver Level Sponsor

    Boss , Hefee, Big Kahuna, that's what Shelby did a marketing and delegator that could have coined the phrase would you like a four barrel with that... :)
    I think Fonz was making a point for the small guy who did the work for the Big Kahuna.
     
  13. fonz

    fonz Donation Time

    Miles was racing a sunbeam with a 260/289 a year before
     
  14. fonz

    fonz Donation Time

    i not say "Miles made the TIGER", said he was racing his own sunbeam, he built, on the dragstrip, before any tiger was made.
     
  15. alpine_64

    alpine_64 Donation Time

    Fonz.. I actaully quoted your post directly... And will do so again:

    "then it Should be a show for KEN MILES, He actually made the 1st sunbeam w/289 a long time before his "best friend" stole the glory and the $$. Same thing for the GT40. MILES designed, built and tested all of them, shelby just took all the Credit and money ! shelby just took the glory and the Money !"

    I see no mention of drag strips or racing a sunbeam.. I do see you claiming that he made the first sunbeam with a 289 ... And apparently long before the shelby apparently stole the $$ and glory....

    As i stated in my previous response Ken raced both series II and series 3 Alpines with factory support in scca road racing events... No drag racing no v8 conversion.

    Ive never seen documents of ken drag racing a 289 V8 powered alpine .. Let alone doing so before the production of the Tiger... When could you possibly be talking about... ?

    Perhaps you might like to share your sources... The Tiger community would be very interetsed in your apparently new information....

    Fonz you apparently have information unkown to the Sunbeam community...

    I and im sure the Tiger community would love to be illuminated by your sources. Please share
     

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