Be very careful with the brake fluid: It is also an effective paint remover!
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Caroline's Project-series 1
- Thread starter ladybeamer
- Start date
ladybeamer
Donation Time
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Sunbeam-engine-trasmission_W0QQitemZ150332896460QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item150332896460&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A4|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318[/URL]
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/sunbeam-engine-trasmission_W0QQitemZ150332893438QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item150332893438&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65%3A1|39%3A1|240%3A1318
If I got one of these do you think I'd just be trading a known problem for an unknown problem?
thanks,
C
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/sunbeam-engine-trasmission_W0QQitemZ150332893438QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item150332893438&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65%3A1|39%3A1|240%3A1318
If I got one of these do you think I'd just be trading a known problem for an unknown problem?
thanks,
C
RootesRacer
Donation Time
Jim E
Donation Time
I would take your time and give the marvel mystery or brake fluid time to work on the rusty rings if that is what you have. Could take a week or more, pull the plugs and pour it in and you may need to add more every few days. Would do that and every day or so stick it in 3rd and rock it back and forth by hand rotating the front tire so you can watch the fan and see if it moves, just rock the car and if it moves I would not get carried away when it first breaks loose, get your slight motor rotation if it frees up and then poor more in the bores and let it sit another day and repeat the rocking. You could get lucky free it up and it run pretty good, then again you could get unlucky and have broken piston rings, which does not mean it will not run...
I would also drain the oil out and look at it for shiney stuff and metal bits which could mean you have an internal engine problem.
I would also drain the oil out and look at it for shiney stuff and metal bits which could mean you have an internal engine problem.
ladybeamer
Donation Time
I'll add more shortly. Try rocking again. I'd prefer to keep the engine-if it can be made good.
Will do. I just received a manual I ordered of ebay so I'll drain the oil and see what's in it.
thanks,
C
I have been thinking about Caroline's car and wondering if we could be missing something obvious. I remembered the eBay listing and asked her to send me the link to check something. It is still active; here it is: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...0299890909&sspagename=STRK:MEWAX:IT&viewitem=
The first thing I see is that the seller has perfect feedback. This is a guy who sells lots of old cars and I rarely see people like that with no negatives. So, for the moment, let's assume that this is a basically honest seller. Then note that he says "The engine starts right up, and the clutch engages properly threw all gears." Yes, the car had been sitting for a while, but it we take him at his word (I know, always risky) he started it up only a few months ago. I don't think the pistons would have rusted to the cylinder walls in only a few months. Perhaps something else is wrong?
Before we talk Caroline into tearing the engine apart, I can't help but wonder if we are missing something simple. As a start, would it be worth putting the clutch in neutral and seeing if the engine will turn manually that way? Maybe pull the plugs and try to turn it with the starting handle if it is there or a wrench on the crankshaft pulley nut if not?
Just a thought...
The first thing I see is that the seller has perfect feedback. This is a guy who sells lots of old cars and I rarely see people like that with no negatives. So, for the moment, let's assume that this is a basically honest seller. Then note that he says "The engine starts right up, and the clutch engages properly threw all gears." Yes, the car had been sitting for a while, but it we take him at his word (I know, always risky) he started it up only a few months ago. I don't think the pistons would have rusted to the cylinder walls in only a few months. Perhaps something else is wrong?
Before we talk Caroline into tearing the engine apart, I can't help but wonder if we are missing something simple. As a start, would it be worth putting the clutch in neutral and seeing if the engine will turn manually that way? Maybe pull the plugs and try to turn it with the starting handle if it is there or a wrench on the crankshaft pulley nut if not?
Just a thought...
I have been following this thread and I agree with Jim completely.
I always and still do treat carb'd motors with the K.I.S.S. method.
Id first remove the spark plugs and put in reverse and try to push it in case the motor is locked up or the starter is jammed.
Or pull the starter out and jump it with cables off a good battery to see if it engages.
Check the electrical system
Either way I would definately try everything possible first before opening the motor.
I also believe a seller on ebay ( especially in old cars) DOES NOT want a bad feedback
This is just my 2 cents
I always and still do treat carb'd motors with the K.I.S.S. method.
Id first remove the spark plugs and put in reverse and try to push it in case the motor is locked up or the starter is jammed.
Or pull the starter out and jump it with cables off a good battery to see if it engages.
Check the electrical system
Either way I would definately try everything possible first before opening the motor.
I also believe a seller on ebay ( especially in old cars) DOES NOT want a bad feedback
This is just my 2 cents
I would agree, something seems fishy.
The car rolls fine in neutral, right? What about when in gear but the clutch depressed? (I think that would tell us the transmission is ok, or at least not locked up right?)
I know this is a stupid question, but we're grasping at straws here. When you tried rocking the car while in gear, or towed it with the truck, was the parking brake on? That would keep the rear wheels from turning and moving the engine.
If it's still no go, I would somehow get someone with experience to check it out before tearing anything apart.
Todd
I'd definitely encourage trying to get the old engine to unstick, if possible. I was able to drive my barn find for 3 years of pretty much trouble-free driving before having to have it rebuilt. (Even if you can only drive it one summer, it'll give you a taste of Alpine motivation, which will carry you through the times of no driving...)
Of course, safety first. If the brakes are shot or the engine sounds like it's going to explode, you'll need to address those issues. And get a fire extinguisher and seat belts. Life's short enough.
Of course, safety first. If the brakes are shot or the engine sounds like it's going to explode, you'll need to address those issues. And get a fire extinguisher and seat belts. Life's short enough.
RootesRich
Donation Time
Todd, you and I are thinking alike... I was going through previous posts and I didn't see it mentioned where the handbrake was released ever.
Furthermore, I don't see a post where Caroline mentioned it rolling in neutral.
I agree with Todd, Doobs and Jim. Before we start suggesting machine shops, let's start from scratch for a minute.
1. With the tranny in neutral and the handbrake released, does the car roll?
2. If the answer to #1 is "yes", remove all 4 plugs, put the car in 4th gear, make sure the handbrake is released, and with some help push the car backwards and listen for the pistons moving up and down (or see if the brake fluid/ marvel oil blows out
).
Caroline, if your confused about what we're talking about with rocking the car back and forth, I believe we have a tech video posted on the website where Jim E performs a valve adjustment. You can see how to rock the car back and forth. Let me know if you need the link and I'll find it.
Furthermore, I don't see a post where Caroline mentioned it rolling in neutral.
I agree with Todd, Doobs and Jim. Before we start suggesting machine shops, let's start from scratch for a minute.
1. With the tranny in neutral and the handbrake released, does the car roll?
2. If the answer to #1 is "yes", remove all 4 plugs, put the car in 4th gear, make sure the handbrake is released, and with some help push the car backwards and listen for the pistons moving up and down (or see if the brake fluid/ marvel oil blows out
).Caroline, if your confused about what we're talking about with rocking the car back and forth, I believe we have a tech video posted on the website where Jim E performs a valve adjustment. You can see how to rock the car back and forth. Let me know if you need the link and I'll find it.
ladybeamer
Donation Time
First-I really appreciate all your help!
1. Rolls when in neutral and parking brake off.
2. with spark plugs out and parking brake off-does not move in reverse or 4th
3. Not sure if I've tried it in gear with the clutch depressed-usually by myself so hard to do. I will try this tomorrow with my daughter.
I put the brake fluid in this evening, tried rocking first to see if the mystery oil worked, no go-brake was off. Not a stupid question as I've been known to have blond moments quite often.
1. Rolls when in neutral and parking brake off.
2. with spark plugs out and parking brake off-does not move in reverse or 4th
3. Not sure if I've tried it in gear with the clutch depressed-usually by myself so hard to do. I will try this tomorrow with my daughter.
I put the brake fluid in this evening, tried rocking first to see if the mystery oil worked, no go-brake was off. Not a stupid question as I've been known to have blond moments quite often.
How do I jump it if the starter is off? The manual I got off ebay isn't really a repair manual as I'd hoped. How difficult is it to remove the starter?
Anyone from the club live in the Mobile, AL or Pensacola, FL area?
I have been thinking and something seemed familiar about all this.
I just got off the phone with my brother...I recall when we picked up his 62 Alpine he had gone there a week earlier and had it running. But when we went to pick it up it acted just like this one.
Result of converstion...brother says it was the starter..it was apparently jammed into the flywheel.....
So If that is infact the case ...it will be something with the starter....
I just got off the phone with my brother...I recall when we picked up his 62 Alpine he had gone there a week earlier and had it running. But when we went to pick it up it acted just like this one.
Result of converstion...brother says it was the starter..it was apparently jammed into the flywheel.....
So If that is infact the case ...it will be something with the starter....
ladybeamer
Donation Time
Ok, lets say it's the starter. How do I remove it and see if that's the cause? Is it hard to remove? I believe I know where the starter is- looks like an alternator at the bottom of the engine against the dash side of the compartment?
Here's how I think I should remove it-
1.put on ramps, disconnect battery-I keep Pos. (ground) unhooked.
2.figure out how it bolts on and what it's connected to
3. disconnect from solenoid and anything else it's hooked to (after taking pics)
What can I harm/screw up while removing from engine?
after it's removed do I try the rocking thing to see if the engine turns?
thanks,
C
Here's how I think I should remove it-
1.put on ramps, disconnect battery-I keep Pos. (ground) unhooked.
2.figure out how it bolts on and what it's connected to
3. disconnect from solenoid and anything else it's hooked to (after taking pics)
What can I harm/screw up while removing from engine?
after it's removed do I try the rocking thing to see if the engine turns?
thanks,
C
ladybeamer
Donation Time
If it's the starter, do I have to rebuild this one or are new ones available?
If I'm going to make it neg. ground to facilitate switch to alternator would I need a different starter?
If I'm going to make it neg. ground to facilitate switch to alternator would I need a different starter?
As for how to remove and what your starter looks like...I have no idea.. As I sold my motor complete attached to my tranny to another member and never even looked at it...Ok, lets say it's the starter. How do I remove it and see if that's the cause? Is it hard to remove? I believe I know where the starter is- looks like an alternator at the bottom of the engine against the dash side of the compartment?
Here's how I think I should remove it-
1.put on ramps, disconnect battery-I keep Pos. (ground) unhooked.
2.figure out how it bolts on and what it's connected to
3. disconnect from solenoid and anything else it's hooked to (after taking pics)
What can I harm/screw up while removing from engine?
after it's removed do I try the rocking thing to see if the engine turns?
thanks,
C
but your steps sound pretty good to me !!!
I can explain how to jump any domestic starter..but im not to sure on the Brit stuff
Hopefully someone will post up who has the starter answers for you !!
SIVAllan
Gold Level Sponsor
If this car was in my garage I'd not count on pulling it across a wet muddy yard to free up much; but would check the solenoid then pull the starter if necessary.
One thick wire to short the solenoid poles and see if that works, if not...pull the starter then test it.
The starter only has 2 bolts how hard can it be?
Might have to remove the exhaust a little bit if it unduly hampers access, that's it, right ??
Failing that, move the oil cooler out of the way temporarily, then turn the engine with a socket on the crank, or by using a handcrank handle.
Some pictures of the overall engine bay might be helpful.
I've seen this car lately. It is very clean and appears to be cared for.
Clean and cared for do not necessarily add up to a running engine, but when hooked to a seller's statement that the engine works, it suggests to me that it likely does work.
I haven't seen many earlier series engine bays but from memory this one looked pretty stock except for a filter hooked to the brake booster that resembles the AC fuel pump bowl. Might be stock too but I don't know the early series.
I'd not count on pulling it across a wet muddy yard to free up much; but would check the solenoid then pull the starter if necessary.One thick wire to short the solenoid poles and see if that works, if not...pull the starter then test it.
The starter only has 2 bolts how hard can it be?
Might have to remove the exhaust a little bit if it unduly hampers access, that's it, right ??
Failing that, move the oil cooler out of the way temporarily, then turn the engine with a socket on the crank, or by using a handcrank handle.
Some pictures of the overall engine bay might be helpful.
I've seen this car lately. It is very clean and appears to be cared for.
Clean and cared for do not necessarily add up to a running engine, but when hooked to a seller's statement that the engine works, it suggests to me that it likely does work.
I haven't seen many earlier series engine bays but from memory this one looked pretty stock except for a filter hooked to the brake booster that resembles the AC fuel pump bowl. Might be stock too but I don't know the early series.
SIVAllan
Gold Level Sponsor
Bill,
I don't have a picture of the engine bay but recall seeing a booster with a glass bowl attached to it, something that looked similar to an AC fuel pump but isn't the fuel pump...
If memory is correct and early series did not have a booster, then a PO could have added one....??
Allan
sunalp
Diamond Level Sponsor
You should pull all the plugs and try to turn the engine over by hand. There should be a starter crank handle in the trunk that will fit the bolt on the crank pulley( lower pulley). If the engine will turn by hand, that may free up the starter if it is stuck in the flywheel. If you cannot turn the engine by hand, then most likely the engine may be stuck, although if the owner was accurate and the car was running, that may be unlikely. Try turning by hand to make sure.
Hope that helps!
Cheers!
Steve
Hope that helps!
Cheers!
Steve