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Braided brake hose

mototron

mototron

Donation Time
Hello all
Has anyone used braided brake hoses on a series V ?
If so what Brands and your thoughts on fitment .

Also the same thoughts on poly bushings for the front end
or should I use a series II front end ?

Looking for a series IV downdraft intake if somebody want to part
with one .

Going to Race at the Jag Event at Limerock this weekend if anyone is
in the area

Thanks
Rocco
631 379 7789
 
Eleven

Eleven

Platinum Level Sponsor
I never have but I will tell you that I am working with JEGS right now on some projects and they are really good to deal with. They have a tech email line that you can ask questions and you get good answers back. So far, I am impressed.
 
R

RootesRacer

Donation Time
mototron said:
Also the same thoughts on poly bushings for the front end
or should I use a series II front end ?
Click to expand...


The SI to SIII front suspension is much tighter than the later suspensions which have the rubber bushings.

Between the metal on metal kinkpin and the threaded iron upper and lower control arm bushings, assuming the parts are not worn and well lubed, the suspension play is nil and can offer a stiffer if not harsh ride in comparison to the later suspensions.

You cant use rubber or poly bushes on the early suspension as the pin ends are threaded, not smooth like the latter.
 
65beam

65beam

Donation Time
braided brake lines

i have this type of flex lines on all of my sunbeams. i usually call doug jennings and he knows where to get them. he may know someone that can make solid bushings for the late suspensions.
 
P

PROCRAFT

Donation Time
Lines

Rocco,

Jegs, Summitt, and Earls Supply Indy all have redi made SS brake lines
Earls also has adapters for metric if your using the stock calipers its an easy deal to get a std length -3 line and some unions and a couple of crush washers and your good to go. also you might check with Rick at Sunbeam Specialties he used to offer a poly bushing kit. havent been to slime rock in years enjoy.

Joel
 
Barry

Barry

Diamond Level Sponsor
For what it is worth, ALL brake hose is braided.

A stainless wire braid on the outside of the brake hose looks nice and certainly adds cut and abrasion resistance, but it does NOT provide any performance advantage (i.e.; lower volumetric expansion) over conventional brake hose with internal PVA filament yarn reinforcement.
 
Barry

Barry

Diamond Level Sponsor
motoron,

Again, ALL BRAKE HOSE HAS BRAIDED REINFORCEMENT.

What is the definition of "good quality"?

What is the specified volumetric expansion value for the brake hose used on Porsche 911's?

What is the test procedure used to measure the volumetric expansion for brake hose?

What is the measured volumetric expansion value for the e-bay brake hose you recommend? "Virtually no volumetric expansion" is not a measured value, it is a vague advertising claim.
 
P

PROCRAFT

Donation Time
Hoses

Rocco;

Im with you on the feel maybe its why its the standard on a lot of race stuff but then you allready knew this!!!!!
 
puff4

puff4

Platinum Level Sponsor
Barry, with due respect, you are correct - all brake hose *is* made of braided-reinforced hose. And the resulting expansion is quite minimal - indeed, it's fine for most folks, even those in racing. I used standard hoses in all my race cars with no ill effects.

(Plus, I was basically a poor kid who couldn't afford the good stuff anyway! Heck, I used trailer wheels on my race cars because I couldn't afford real "mags"... stock wheels always used to crack on the track, and trailer wheels were the strongest wheels you could buy... check this picture of me and my Elva if you doubt it! I was probably 19 or 20 at the time, and that's my dad with me, getting a 'demo'. The most expensive thing in that car was the Detroit locker rear. Hey, check out those cool wheels!! Right out of the J.C. Whitney trailer catalog! ;) )

Elva1978-1.jpg



Anyway, having said all that, the reinforcement in standard lines is usually rayon (or a derivative), which has a bit of stretch to it. Steel braiding, on the other hand, has virtually no stretch to it.

That tiny amount of stretch that the rayon offers doesn't seem like much, and indeed it isn't... but considering that there's usually 3 or 4 of these hoses in most systems, and that the total length of hose is probably around 32", that little bit of give does add up.

When using all-steel braided lines you really can feel a difference, since they perform as near to a solid steel line as you can effectively get, with almost no 'give'.

But do you really *need* them? Probably not. It's a 'nice to have' as far as I'm concerned.
 
Barry

Barry

Diamond Level Sponsor
Rayon reinforcement has not been used in U.S. made brake hose since late 1987 and the current reinforcement (PVA) is not a derivative of rayon. I developed both the rayon reinforcement used prior to 1987 and the PVA reinforcement that replaced rayon.

I have been involved with testing brake hose with a wide variety of reinforcements including rayon filament yarn, PVA filament yarn and stainless steel (SS) wire. The fact is that most brake hose with SS wire reinforcement has HIGHER volumetric expansion than OEM brake hose with PVA reinforcement. The bending stiffness of the SS wire makes it very difficult to achieve a "tight" braid compared to very flexible continuous filament yarns.

The external SS wire braid brake hose looks uber cool and it certainly has good abrasion and cut resistance, but claims about improved braking and better pedal feel are nothing more than hype from the seller unless they are backed up by test data.

FWIW, para-aramid filament yarn (aka Kevlar and Twaron) is not used for U.S. made OEM brake hose because of poor flex fatigue and poor performance on the "whip test". The initial numbers are good, but things go downhill in a hurry.


Some information about 1/8" ID brake hose for those who care about facts:

The pressure in hydraulic brake systems seldom exceeds 1,000 PSI.

The DOT requirement for burst pressure is 7,000 PSI MINIMUM.

The burst pressure for OEM brake hose with PVA reinforcement is typically greater than 15,000 PSI.

The DOT requirement for regular expansion brake hose is a volumetric expansion of not more than 0.66 cc per foot of length at 1,000 PSI.

The DOT requirement for low expansion brake hose is a volumetric expansion of not more than 0.33 cc per foot of length at 1,000 PSI.

The volumetric expansion of regular expansion U.S. made OEM brake hose with PVA reinforcement is typically about 0.10 cc per foot of length at 1,000 PSI.

The volumetric expansion of low expansion U.S. made OEM brake hose with PVA reinforcement is typically about 0.07 cc per foot of length at 1,000 PSI.

ALL U.S. made OEM brake hose meets (far exceeds) the DOT requirements for low expansion brake hose. The car makers demand much lower volumetric expansion than is allowed by the DOT.


I don't care what kind of brake hose people use, but the decision should be based on facts rather than hype and bling.

Just my opinion based on 25+ years in the business. YMMV.
 
DanR

DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
To be hose or not to be hose....

Folks, seems to me Barry has the "Facts".

Remember "Dragnet"?

Just the Facts Mam! Just the Facts...:D

DanR

P.S.. Seems also that the "hose issue" was discussed here about a year ago?

At least the "markings"!
 
65beam

65beam

Donation Time
brake hose

it's a matter of personal taste. i like the looks of the steel braided lines and have been using them for years. never have had a failure. the steel outer layer is an extra layer of security since it may take longer for the steel coating to wear thru than it would for the rubber to wear. the steel braided lines sold by pegasus have a temp range up to +450 F and max operating pressure is 3000 psi and the minimum burst pressure is 12000 psi. i would think my .700 master would start leaking first. one of my questions is how old are the rubber lines being sold for our cars. the demand for flex brake lines for a sunbeam has to be very minimal. they may be 40 years old.
 
T

the ghoul

Donation Time
This is a good local company I deal with.
http://inlinetube.com/Brake Hoses Stainless/sshoses.htm
Send them a set of the stock rubber lines and they will be able to make you the braded stainless sort.
Gentalmen, I believe you are not getting to the core of the issue. The material that most "good" quality lines are made from are not in any way shape or form simmular to that of fule or transmssion lines. They are typically made of a synthetic core like nylon or teflon. So yes, you will feel a diffrence between a quality braded stainless line and the standard rubbers....
Will that equate to a better track time or not I have no idea, from first hand experence tho on street applications it is a much more solid feel and thats worth it to me...





also they look darn cool
 
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