Book of Norman

alpine_64 · Feb 11, 2008

Duke said:
Norman has no interest in publishing the book again. The publisher is no longer in business. Why can't the book be scanned and sold as a CD? I will gladly pay $100 for the CD. .

Problem is that breaks copyright and IP. If you do that who would bother writting another book? I think Norman has done a great job for tiger owners, i have asked him about an edition II and he said its sort of in the making, but will not involve the content of the first print.. it is a pitty... but thats the way it is. Maybe someday he will decide to republish it... and that point.. ouch if you paid heaps for the book... but i guess thats also why he might not do it ... would upset people.. and ultimately.. why didnt it sell out fast originaly and make him do a second run?

As a side note I was a way away from a driving liscence when the book was published... so i didnt really have an opportunity... but thems the brakes

havealucky · Feb 11, 2008

B Of N

From what I know of book collecting, even if a second edition were published (unlikely as the printers plates were destroyed according to Norm) the first edition would retain its value as a collectible. It would likely even push it up a bit as it gained more widespread recognition as such.

A first edition of The Hobbit goes for $85,000 but you can still walk into a bookstore and get a reprint for $15.00.

Tim

RootesRooter · Feb 11, 2008

The problem with a 2nd edition is that a good chunk of TBON is the registry. Collecting that data took an aggressive, time-consuming effort over several years by Norm, and even then, it was a partially out-of-date snapshot by the time TBON was published (e.g. I was still listed as owner of B382100232, which I had sold 6-7 years earlier) Reprinting the 1st edition registry wouldn't have much value except as a curiosity, but without any registry, Norm would have to come up with a lot of new info to justify a new book if it's true he doesn't want to re-print the old stuff. Is there really that much unrevealed Tiger lore?

RootesRooter · Feb 11, 2008

The problem with a 2nd edition is that a good chunk of TBON is the registry. Collecting that data took an aggressive, time-consuming effort over several years by Norm, and even then, it was a partially out-of-date snapshot by the time TBON was published (e.g. I was still listed as owner of B382100232, which I had sold 6-7 years earlier) Reprinting the 1st edition registry wouldn't have much value except as a curiosity, but without any registry, Norm would have to come up with a lot of new info to justify a new book if it's true he doesn't want to re-print the old stuff. Is there really that much unrevealed Tiger lore?

66Tiger · Feb 12, 2008

havealucky said:
Careful, Norm has copyright on his book. I'm no legal expert but I would be choked and seek legal recourse if someone put a book I wrote on a CD and flogged it. No doubt Norm has similar proprietary feelings and enjoys having created the mystique that surrounds his book, as he should.

Actually I was joking, I have been in print/advertising/marketing/internet for 20 years...i would never attempt to profit for another person's work without proper permission.

Recently a friend brought to my attention someone on Ebay may be profiting from my hard work...I am currently looking into the matter.

If I was Norm, I wouldn't reprint the Book of Norm as it is...I would sell two smaller variations. One as a Restorer's Guide with the facts on how to get your Sunbeam right. The second book would be filled with the interesting stories. Then just leave the registry information out, since as soon as the book is published the data will be out of date.

Paul

Jim E · Feb 12, 2008

Sooner or later if it has not been done already the book will be scanned.

66Tiger · Feb 12, 2008

371 pages...scanned, aligned, cleaned up without damaging the book...fun, fun!

sunbeam74 · Feb 12, 2008

I wouldn't expect the first edition to hold its value if a second edition was introduced. If you follow instances where second editions are introduced you probably will see a significant dip.

For example both Mark Donahue's "Unfair Advantage" and Phil Hill's "Yankee Champion" were commanding significant dollars. (upward $1500 and $800 respectively) Then the reprints were issued. The price of a 1st edition dropped considerably from their high. Now, many years later the 1st edition prices stabilized and are climbing back somewhat.

You also have to factor in this is a reference book versus a literary piece.
Personally, I think literary pieces hold up better but that is just my opinion.

It comes down to supply and demand. Right now there is very little supply.
That would all change with the introduction of a second edition. Then your client base for 1st edition is a different customer.

Steve

Tullamore · Feb 12, 2008

sunbeam74 said:
That would all change with the introduction of a second edition. Then your client base for 1st edition is a different customer.

Why should Norm care, he isn't selling them the book anyways, it is others that are making a huge profit as the second/third sellers.

66Tiger · Feb 12, 2008

If it sold as slow as it supposedly did...maybe he has a case of them under his bed? I know I wish I did! Need to get working on a time machine, to go back in time...

Paul

sunbeam74 · Feb 12, 2008

Paul,

It is funny you mention finding a box of BON under the bed. There is an incredible Alfa Romeo book, The Immortal 2.9, which sold so poorly that a case was inadvertently left in the publishers storage area.

Over the years they have climbed from $60.00 to 1000.00 about 8 years ago. Now they are listed between $2000-2500.

I can't remember when the publisher found the case but my guess is he made more money on the "found case" than the original printing.

Steve

havealucky · Feb 12, 2008

sunbeam74 said:
I wouldn't expect the first edition to hold its value if a second edition was introduced. If you follow instances where second editions are introduced you probably will see a significant dip.

For example both Mark Donahue's "Unfair Advantage" and Phil Hill's "Yankee Champion" were commanding significant dollars. (upward $1500 and $800 respectively) Then the reprints were issued. The price of a 1st edition dropped considerably from their high. Now, many years later the 1st edition prices stabilized and are climbing back somewhat.

You also have to factor in this is a reference book versus a literary piece.
Personally, I think literary pieces hold up better but that is just my opinion.

It comes down to supply and demand. Right now there is very little supply.
That would all change with the introduction of a second edition. Then your client base for 1st edition is a different customer.

Steve

Steve,

You make a good point that initially the price might go down somewhat. It is true that there might be a time lag as people snapped up another edition. Over time however (how much time is debatable) the value of the original would likely be enhanced due to the increased exposure.

I also get the point about the literary vs. reference issue. I think however when you get such a rare and esoteric reference book you can throw the book selling manual out the window. It's going to be worth what people are willing to pay for the usefulness and cachet of owning it. Most Tiger people have as much tied up in their air filter housings as they might have in the book so it has become just another expensive accessory for Tiger folks.

One of the other posts pointed out and, quite correctly, that a large chunk of the book is dedicated to the long out of date Registry. It would be pointless to reprint this information which adds to the Book being a historical document: sort of a snapshot in time, never to be repeated.

Interesting discussion for sure, and ironic that the thread started with a fellow trying to establish the value of his copy-and no, I don't want it as I am still trying to pay off my copy...

havealucky

RootesRich · Feb 14, 2008

I'd settle for a chance to read Norm's chapter on the VIN numbers with the hope it would provide some insight on our SV pre-production car. Word has it he does write about the Tiger pre-production cars and their numbering system.
I just can't justify spending $1K+ on a book for 1 page.

mikephillips · Feb 14, 2008

he doesn't really write in detail about the numbering system for the VIN, just makes not of some odd things and some guesses as to what they might mean. But no real hard evidence.

RootesRich · Feb 14, 2008

mikephillips said:
he doesn't really write in detail about the numbering system for the VIN, just makes not of some odd things and some guesses as to what they might mean. But no real hard evidence.

Mike, does he say anything about the Lemans cars? If I remember correctly, they had the B949999XX numbering system like our SV car and I've wondered if there was any corrolation between the cars numbered this way (ie. assembled by the same team, etc).

alpine_64 · Feb 14, 2008

The LM tigers were based on S3 cars.. one of them was a prototype tiger too an AF car... maybe scott will oneday buy one of them and return it to a S3 ?

mikephillips · Feb 15, 2008

Because the mule ended with 99, the first competition car with 98 and the secind with 97 he speculates that it could have been done to leave room for a larger number of cars that could be produced. But he doesn't really guess at why that numbering scheme was chosen. Biggest problem in all his talk about VINs is that there's really no documentation to back anything up, just a handful of guesses. If you come to Invasion this summer Rich I'd be happy to bring the book along so you can see what's there, although by then I'd hope you remind me.