Body Panel replace Time

[65beam]

Dan,
You have a distinct advantage in that you can do the work. Many such as this owner can't do the work for various reasons. Jean and I have done 5 Sunbeam restorations in the last twenty years and we use two shops when it comes to the body work. They're no different than the upholstery shop that we use. They'll tell you that they can't give you a firm set cost of the work because of unknowns that will show up. Restorations are nothing like getting an estimate of repairs after an instance like the young lady that totaled two cars and thousands of dollars in repairable crash damage to three other cars including two of our cars on our street last fall. It sounds like the shop he talked to has enough knowledge to understand this and the 800 to 1000 hours will cover those unknowns. I currently have one project in the shop and it's rust free with only one dent that is obvious but who knows what may be found when the paint comes off. We'll know the cost when the paint is finished. Having a shop to do a restoration all boils down to what you are able to invest in the work .

 

[PROCRAFT]

Joel, Not all are as talented as you my friend! From the time I started on the BW35 GT til now has been quite a roller coaster event.... Bought some and made a lot myself. Probably the hardest is getting the panel under the doors because of the original curvature. They are not straight as some replacements have been known to be!

I bought an English Wheel with a bunch of extra pieces to work with late in the process of restoration. I still haven't mastered that thing It really helps if you want to make curves such as needed in the rear panel.

Here is a picture of where I made a panel for the GT using the "rusty piece" that was cut out as a pattern. It took a lot of time to make the replacement panel, but I did it for both sides.

Time, time, time, just time! Now think how you can feel once your time has proven you can do it A great feeling.

Off the subject, but, it took me more than three years to get my Straight back headers for the V6 finished. More than a half dozen shops had my Alpine (BW35 Gt) on the rotisserie in which they had agreed to build the headers, but reneged on the deal. Finally one day I made a decision that I would "do-it-myself".... Ordered a bunch of pipe fittings, elbows, U and J bends and started "cutting and pasting" them together. One week later, I was a proud Gent! I had the headers tacked together and they fit perfectly. If I an do something like that anyone can.

As an encouragement to you (anyone) that a look at some of the Alpine (s) on U-tube that were restored. here are some that amaze me that anyone would even "think" about doing a restoration project on them.

My '65 SIV GT BW35 was headed to the scrap yard when my friend gave it to me. I almost took it straight there myself, but after 25 years of inside storage I started the restoration, stopped after a bit due to all of the rust, then began again after making the decision that I did not want to loss another rare vehicle ! Untold hours! Still lots of work yet! But one thing for sure it is now a solid Alpine just awaiting the paint job.

Dan I'll post the pictures some time of the "stuff"also the rockers I fabbed and how I did it. Might be of interest

 

[PROCRAFT]

Here ya go Dan /other folks Some pictures of the "Alpine" I'm working on we didn't start with much as Dan says. as to the rocker fab I made a pattern off the body and duplicated in 20 gage sheet metal as the rocker is curved if you twist the piece it will become curved just like the original, I cut the old rocker off along the top and bottom seam (at the returns where the rocker is broke 90 deg) then just fit and welded it on and finished. were just talking about the outer skin here.I formed the rocker over a round tube by hand. the pictures show the condition of the floors, inner rocker, cross beam when I got it as I said just a lot of time/labor put it right.

 

[DanR]

I like your work, especially this:

I have a '67 SV Alpine that will need this type work! It's scheduled But when???

 

[PROCRAFT]

I like your work, especially this:

I have a '67 SV Alpine that will need this type work! It's scheduled But when???

Idunno know.

 

[Jimjordan2]

Sounds to me like it would be a lot cheaper to buy another car. Let's see, 850-1000 hours at what? $80-$100 an hour? I could sell you a real nice Alpine for a lot less than that amount of money. I say find another car. Good luck which ever way you decide to go. I'm rootin' for ya.

 

[Tim R]

When my wife and I got our Alpine I couldn't do welding or bodywork and couldn't afford the cost of getting someone else to do it. The car was very, very rusty but I wanted to save the old girl. It took 3 years and a lot of learning but I can now weld, fabricate panels, lead load and do all manner of other jobs, plus we have a lovely Alpine. Almost everything had to be re-made, much of it shaped from flat sheet steel. If you can summon up the determination and stick at it even when you'd rather be doing something else it is surprising what can be achieved. This car even won a 'Highly Commended' Award at The Sunbeam Alpine National in UK earlier this year.

Tim R

 

[65beam]

There are several chores that a restoration shop will do that the home restorer probably can't do. Joel is without a doubt the exception due to his past life as a fabricator. The first thing done by both shops I use is to check alignment of the front and rear frame rails and other parts of the structure. This requires time to remove spot welds and loosening body panels if things need moved. This takes a lot of time. If these dimensions are not correct then how do you align panels and obtain proper panel gaps, etc. There's a lot more to a restoration than just replacing panels and paint.

 

[PROCRAFT]

There are several chores that a restoration shop will do that the home restorer probably can't do. Joel is without a doubt the exception due to his past life as a fabricator. The first thing done by both shops I use is to check alignment of the front and rear frame rails and other parts of the structure. This requires time to remove spot welds and loosening body panels if things need moved. This takes a lot of time. If these dimensions are not correct then how do you align panels and obtain proper panel gaps, etc. There's a lot more to a restoration than just replacing panels and paint.

Bob: past life still life?

 

[65beam]

Bob: past life still life?

Joel,
I forgot you're still doing fab work. Age causes me to forget a few things.

 

[PROCRAFT]

Joel,
I forgot you're still doing fab work. Age causes me to forget a few things.

That's not true.

 

[Tim R]

I've been thinking about 65Beam's comment ...... This takes a lot of time. If these dimensions are not correct then how do you align panels and obtain proper panel gaps, etc. There's a lot more to a restoration than just replacing panels and paint.
I doubt if many parts on our Alpine would fit any other one! Each piece was made for this specific car and to give the correct panels gaps all round. We welded bolts onto the sills to set the bottom door gaps (while the door opening was braced) then built the doors to fit that gap exactly. We followed the same approach all round. It still looks like an Alpine but I doubt if we could swap many panels with an original one!

 

[sunalp]

I doubt if we could swap many panels with an original one!

You'd be surprised that something as simple as replacing a door how different the gaps can be. My car needed new outer sills
(all inners were rust free , as were the floors) but someone at some point replaced the drivers door with an early round
cornered door. (I have an SV) The car came with a set of the correct doors, so a simple bolt on, right? No way. While the front gap was
pretty good, the rear gap was huge! I actually ended up welding a rod to the outer edge of the door to close up the gap.

I think Rootes more or less hand built each car as it came down the line. It's no wonder that they're still around as these
cars are so well built!

 

[65beam]

Now you know why original cars have so much lead in areas. It was a way to close gaps that were too big. Doug ended up removing metal in some areas of the series 4 and he added metal in other areas because we replaced both doors, hood, and trunk with rust free units. What works for one car probably won't work on others. I've seen others in the area that have rebuilt door hinges that caused problems because of too much movement. This doesn't allow for consistent gaps. There is a machine shop in Dayton that does an excellent job of rebuilding the hinges. Doug had to install shims behind the door hinges on the body side of the Harrington in order to bring the back corner up to the level of the body because the Harrington top sets on top of the B post. I must say that I have never seen anyone do the bolt thing to hold the door in place. That's a unique approach.

 

[65beam]

Door gaps on the series 4

 

[PROCRAFT]

Somebody told me once that the doors are specific to each car.

 

[65beam]

Somebody told me once that the doors are specific to each car.

Joel,
With the amount of lead we've found around the doors it does take a bit of work to get another door to fit. Doug has made doors, etc. fit whatever car he's installing them on. Kinda reminds me of you. Does George still have the white car? I haven't seen it anywhere for a few years. FYI, I ran across the window regulator for the drivers door of the series 4. Let me know if you need it.

 

[PROCRAFT]

Bob;
Your right about the doors whaver it takes. Not sure about George he was over here with Mike Crawford?? To pick up a Gearbox maybe 1/2 years ago? I know at one time it was for sale. I'll have to call him sometime to catch up,thanks for the offer on the window bits,I'm going to build up the gears,as I said and see what happens there. Right now the the car is coming apart for paint,also going to Moser monday leave the axle so they can set up a new gear set simpler than me doing it,their busy now probably take two days just means more road miles.

 

[howehap]

For how to form and restore sheet metal, I have been watching Trev's Blog. Excellent! He explains how, starting with simple hand tools, including shrinking and removing dents to forming and welding in rust repair sections. TIG set up, painting, etc. He works for a restoration shop, but most of his videos are doing restoration at his home.
The link is: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCB8HF8Pqug-Pc7DFqX9lf_g/videos