Anyone know whats going on? Electronics Question

keems06 · Mar 30, 2011

I posted about this a little while ago and have since decided to add a modern alternator to my SIV GT alpine. Before I do so I have a question about the wiring. The previous owner added what looks like a relay which connects to the voltage regulator and I'm not sure exactly what I should remove. There was an alternator in the trunk which I will assume was installed at one time but not sure. The car did not come with a generator or battery (it was a barn find). I'm not sure how the voltage regulator is normally mounted but it appears that the there are rubber washers insulating it from the body of the car? Is that normal? I attached some pictures, I hope they help.

My questions are:
Is there a way to check neg/pos ground without a battery?
Does anyone know why this relay would have been installed? And if I can just cut it out and wire in the alternator?
I'm planning on installing an alternator like the one in this article http://www.team.net/www/rootes/sunbeam/alpine/mk1-5/techtips/altconv.html
Anyone know where to get an alternator bracket?

Thanks for all the help, I know you guys know your stuff.

-Mike

mattinoz · Mar 31, 2011

Mike,

Not much about your set up looks original. I can see the starter solenoid behind that massive thing bolted to the guard. Apart from that I don't recognise anything else. If you're going to use a modern 'one wire' alternator with inbuilt regulator then I believe the set up is rather simply with no need for an external reg. The output from the alt goes to the battery + side usually at the starter sol.

My SV has such an alt and I don't require the 4TR control box or 6RA alt relay although I have added these to stay with the original look.

BTW if your car is a SIV then it will be neg earth already. I believe all SIV's were.

sunbeam74 · Mar 31, 2011

Mike,

Matt is right it looks like the Voltage regulator is an aftermarket regulator as well as the starter selinoid). It probably worked fine if wired correctly.

I am sure the rubber bushings were to isolate the regulator from vibration. I don't recall seeing that done on the Lucas regulators.

If you are going to the alternator your wiring will be simplified. I believe, depending on the alt you get the old bracket can be used with a spacer or two.
(I think I used a alt out of a mid-early 80's Nissan truck)

Steve

jimandi · Mar 31, 2011

What's going on

Mike,
I have a 1965 Series IV and it came with POSITIVE EARTH. Tachometer is imprinted on the face of the dial with "positive earth." Your car could have been changed to negative by PO. If you don't have a battery installed and you are going to change to negative with a new alternator you might not have to change anything.
Jim

Tom H · Mar 31, 2011

All SIV used a Generator and were Pos earth. But as far as determining what the car is now, it just about doesn't matter if you have no charging system installed. Almost everything, except the tach and generator / Alternator is polarity independent. I would switch to the Nisson Alternator . You may need a SV bracket. If your SIV has teh original bracket it is for an Generator and has widely spaced mounting tabs (pivots)

Do a search on Alternator and you'll find dozens of suggestions.

Look at the fine print on your tach dial , it will probably say Positive Earth. But it may have been converted. If it is not yet converted see my tach article in the Article Archive to see how to converyt it.

Tom

keems06 · Mar 31, 2011

Thanks everyone for the great information. I think I've got the alternator narrowed down to a 50amp one-wire from a '85 Nissan 720 Pickup. I'll pick that up this weekend. I've been looking for an SV alternator bracket but have come up empty handed. (checked eBay, VB, Sunbeam specialties) Do you know of anyone who still makes them? Perhaps someone on the forum that has a drawing? I'm pretty handy with Solidworks/AutoCad if someone has some dimensions I can draw one up and have it made.

Thanks again

-Mike

Tom H · Mar 31, 2011

Post a picture of what the bracket you have looks like. Maybe you already have one

And then post in the Alpine parts wanted. Should be no problem to find one on this forum.

And it still might require some modfification to get the new alternator lned up with the crank pully.

And tell us what does your tach say? what model # what polarity?

Tom

keems06 · Apr 1, 2011

Actually I dont have a bracket at all. I know the SV bracket is some sort of L shape with a few holes. The alternator was in the trunk and there was no bracket to be found. I will let you know the what the tach says as soon as it stops raining here. The beam has a temp home outside of the garage (undercover and a tarp of course)

beamS3 · Apr 1, 2011

This is the bracket I intend to use. Jeep generator to alternator universal bracket - $16 from ebay

Bob

Tom H · Apr 1, 2011

Bob, That's an intersting approach. But it probably won't help Mike since he does not have even a Generator bracket.

So Mike, You need to post a request on the Alpine parts wanted. Ask for a Series 5 Alternator mounting bracket. Might as well also ask for the adjuster bracket as well, although it may need modification as well. Or you could just fabricate the adjuster - it's a pretty simple flat piece of steel with a hole on one end and a slot in the other end.

Tom

keems06 · Apr 1, 2011

Hi Tom,
I just checked the tach. It states "Positive Earth"
To check polarity, I assume I'll have to get under the dash and check the wiring? Still raining, so I wont be able to check that until things dry out.

As far as the bracket goes...maybe I'm confused as to where it bolts on. Here's a pic of the engine out of the car, is that the bracket circled in red? I was under the assumption the L shaped SV bracket would bolt to those two empty holes just under the header. Am I mistaken? If so, pardon me for the newb mistake. If that's the bracket then what bolts to those two holes? The adjuster bracket? Thanks again for all the help

Tom H · Apr 1, 2011

Bob, That's an intersting approach. But it probably won't help Mike since he does not have even a Generator bracket.

So Mike, You need to post a request on the Alpine parts wanted. Ask for a Series 5 Alternator mounting bracket. Might as well also ask for the adjuster bracket as well, although it may need modification as well. Or you could just fabricate the adjuster - it's a pretty simple flat piece of steel with a hole on one end and a slot in the other end.

Tom

Tom H · Apr 1, 2011

Mike sorry about te recent post it was written a few hours ago but just now sent again.

To answer your recent post:

Without the generator and battery installed there is no real way to tell if the car was ever converted to Neg earth. Unless there is some note on the back of the tach, or you take it apart and look inside, it is not possible to tell if it has been converted. The model 2404/00A is easily converted by simply swapping a couple wires. See page 14 of my article.

regarding the bracket, yes the low bracket is the original geneartor bracket. You can tell it's for a generator by the wide spacing of the tabs to match te longer generator. The Series V alternator bracket mounts in those same holes in the block . But it is an F shape with two prongs of the F being the attaching (pivot) points for the Alt.
And the missing bolt in the water pump is the bolt that anchors the adjustment bracket

Lastly, assuming you install an alternator ( assuming Neg earth) , and install battery with Its Neg term to chassis. the only additional change you may need to do is switch the tach to Neg earth. everything else should be fine.

Tom

britbeam · Apr 1, 2011

Just a note on alternators for the V6 conversion. I used a Hitachi alternator P/N 14231 "World Class" Lifetime warranty from Advance Auto Parts. To use this alternator with Joses alt bracket it takes minor changes #1 drill alt mount hole to 3/8" and #2 make some alignment spacers for the attachpoints for aligning the Alt pulley with Water pump pulley. Anybody can do this. This alternator was used on 1973 Datsun trucks. Now why use this alternator? The size is much smaller than a GM etc and it looks like its balanced in size to the engine. Just on more step to a installation that looks factory even if its not the Sunbeam factory. Its very affordable and available. After all this converted Alpine is "Not your Mothers Alpine"
Dwain V6 Krazy

Tom H · Apr 1, 2011

Britbeam, That's the alternator I used. I like the idea of using spacers to align the alt pully with the crank pully. In my case I repositioned the bracket by driilling lengated slots for the bolts into the block.

Tom

Gumby · Jul 11, 2021

For anyone still dealing with this issue of converting to an alternator (like I plan to do), here is a pic from eBay of the series V alternator bracket. Now I know what I need to fab up... or buy.