Alpine Performance Headers

[atallamcs]

I have placed another order for these headers. For those that missed the last batch, please see the EBAY listing to purchase one of these. Thanks and Happy Holidays!!

Bill Atalla

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Sunb...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

 

[atallamcs]

Performance Header

I have one extra Sunbeam Alpine Header available immediately. The last batch was just completed and ready to ship. Let me know if you ned one--not planning on ordering again for a while. Takes about 45-60 days usually to get one. $375 includes domestic shipping--International at actual cost.
B. Atalla
atallamcs@aol.com

 

[skywords]

Bill
I have early cars with the Zeniths, I don't think they will work with that manifold am I correct?

Rick

 

[atallamcs]

header

Hi Rick,
NO that is not correct, they fit all series!
Bill

 

[atallamcs]

header fit

UPDATE: I just learned that the header does pose a fit problem with the water cooled manifold. Some have ground down the manifold where the two interfer, but that said--I want everyone to know of this issue and recommend prefit before coating/plating etc. This is a good practice with all headers. It was news to me after all the headers I have sold. I am sorry if this has caused any problems.
Bill Atalla

 

[Alpine 1789]

Since I am the one who discovered the problem, I want to add two clarifications to my earlier posts on the subject. First, just in case there were any misconceptions, I want to be clear that Bill's headers are beautifully made and I am happy to recommend them. The only issue is the potential problem with the Rootes water cooled manifolds. And, while I had to grind mine down to the point where the water jacket was compromised, your mileage may vary. I know I took more off in the end than was needed. It was so hard to judge the amount to take off with the header already mounted and the engine in the car and I wasn't really worried about keeping the jacket intact since I have a SV. It is possible that it could be made to fit with less grinding.

 

[Andrew]

Since I am the one who discovered the problem, I want to add two clarifications to my earlier posts on the subject. First, just in case there were any misconceptions, I want to be clear that Bill's headers are beautifully made and I am happy to recommend them. The only issue is the potential problem with the Rootes water cooled manifolds. And, while I had to grind mine down to the point where the water jacket was compromised, your mileage may vary. I know I took more off in the end than was needed. It was so hard to judge the amount to take off with the header already mounted and the engine in the car and I wasn't really worried about keeping the jacket intact since I have a SV. It is possible that it could be made to fit with less grinding.

Hi Jim,

Do you have any images of what you had to do for the header to work. I would like to be clear to what had to be done. Do you have to do the work to the manifold or can one grind the area of the header that is in question?

I purcased one of these some time ago and have yet to take a look at things. My SIII is running the water cooled manifould with dual Zenith carbs, I can only assume that I am about to have a problem.

Andrew

 

[Alpine 1789]

My SIII is running the water cooled manifould with dual Zenith carbs, I can only assume that I am about to have a problem.

I am afraid you probably are. Is you engine still outside of the car? If so, that is very good news as you will be able to test fit everything when you can see exactly what you are up against. You are going to have to grind away at the bottom of the intake where it rubs against the header. You may be able to get away with just a little; it was very hard for me to do it precisely with everything on the car. I also think you could lessen the grinding needed (and maybe make sealing everything up easier) by using extra gasket material between the intake and the head. The extra material would move the intake out a bit, lessening the spots where it rubs. One other option, which Bill might be the best person to comment on, is to dent the header at the two contact points. I probably would have gone this option if I hadn't already had the header coated. In fact, the best option is probably a combination of the three: An extra gasket, a little grinding on the intake, and a slight dimple on the header. And, don't forget to pay attention to the area where the flanges meet up; I suspect every intake is probably a little different. You may need to do some adjusting to the header, the intake, or both.

Unfortunately, I don't have any pictures. My camera battery was dead at the time and I didn't want to wait while it charged. I did post some pictures of my old manifold, indicating about where the two rubbed. http://www.sunbeamalpine.org/forum/showthread.php?t=9911&page=2

Good luck. With careful planning, it would probably be possible to make it all fit together and keep the water cooling.

 

[Andrew]

headers

Hi Jim,

No, the engine is in the car. I have the engine out of my SIV that could be used to mock up the assembly. I would hate to grind down the manifold.

A call out to the rest of you guys, have you done this to your car?
If anyone has pictures or a template showing what to do, it would be great.

Otherwise when I get a chance I will try and put some pictures and a template showing what must come off of what.....

Andrew

 

[alpine_64]

Just a question about headers on the alpine..

The SI/II ran a set of "ears" on the headers (on 1st and 4th pipes). These are used to help stablise the manifold via 2 long anchored bolts that secure against the head.. the S3 sports had this.. not sure about the GT as it had the cast manifold.. but may have used the same system (anyone?)

Bills headers do not have the ears.. so you wont have the support of a stock setup.. that said.. not sure the S3/IV single setup used the stablising ears.. can someone confirm?

Either way, im sure Bills headers are a nice bit of kit.. pity im all the way down here.. i had to do a little welding on my 40+ year old originals.

 

[Series3Scott]

Yes, the stock Series 3 Sports setup had the "ears" Michael mentions. Here's a shot of my engine bay showing the ears and the support mechanism they used to tie the header and the manifold together. There was one for #1 and another for #4. Obviously my manifold is the single intake type with Weber DGV.

Relative to Jim Stone and Andrew Masse's problems it looks like I'm going to have the same problem with my Sebring project. I bought one of Bill's headers for it and was more concerned about it fitting around the gear reduction starter I planned on using. Luckily it bolted right up and didn't interfere with the starter, but I haven't fitted the stock Zenith water-cooled manifold yet and now am concerned I'll have to do some mods like Jim and Andrew.

 

[65beam]

headers

scott,
i used the stainless headers that sunbeam specialties sells for series 1 & 2. i replaced the original set on the red harrington . rick's are a copy of the original headers on the lemans . for the series 4 with the original intake i have to use the later style without the piece on number 1 & 4. the series 4 bolts up the same as the series 5.the headers for the series 1 & 2 do clear the generator . i like rick's since they are copies of the lemans headers and not what was used on regular series 1 & 2 cars . keep in mind also that there have been reports of the starter you're using don't mate with the flywheel of the alpines .

 

[Andrew]

Yes, the stock Series 3 Sports setup had the "ears" Michael mentions. Here's a shot of my engine bay showing the ears and the support mechanism they used to tie the header and the manifold together.

Wow, I remember the first time I saw that engine bay. I heard birds chirping, butterflies fluttered by, the clouds parted, I began to hear a choir and then an Invasion buddy slapped me on the back of the head and told me to snap out of it.

Andrew
(I love your car)

 

[Jim E]

Yeah I recall that I also recall the clouds dumpimg about 40 gallons of water on the tonno cover and watching it stretch toward the floor, and seeing Scott flit to and fro like a demented hornet looking to sting something.

 

[Andrew]

Yeah I recall that I also recall the clouds dumpimg about 40 gallons of water on the tonno cover and watching it stretch toward the floor, and seeing Scott flit to and fro like a demented hornet looking to sting something.

Oh.......So that is what that was.

It could have been him that slapped me then.

 

[sunbeam74]

Here's a photo of the manifold with the water jacket cut off. Basically, the procedure recommended in the Sunbeam Tuning guide.
Scott had asked for a photo.

The header ears aren't essential, I believe, since most of the race cars I have found have unique headers without ears.. But you will need to make a stepped washer (thick) which helps retain the manifold. I think I typically have just bought a 5/8" diameter piece of brass from McMaster-car and cut it down to a reasonable thickness. Then measured the difference in manifold face thickness to determine the step.

Steve

 

[alpine1963]

I am about to install a set of the headers from Bill on my Series 3. Before I get into taking the old ones off the car I took the headers and placed them with a manifold that is like the one on my car. They do not fit together like everyone has said. I took these pictures so it would be easy to explain. If the "ears" are not needed then grinding them down vs. grounding down the manifold would be the best.

suggestions??

Cheers,

 

[alpine1963]

Another picture. I sprayed the old manifold wiht red primer so it would show up better in a picture if anyone is wondering!

Cheers,

 

[sunbeam74]

The "ears" that I was pointing out were the ones in Micheal Kings photo. The ears that provide support for the long retention bolts.

When I installed my set I had to use the die-grinder to remove some material on the edge of the exhaust manifold in certain areas. It didn't take much removal of material... just a millimeter or two here and there.

Steve

 

[Andrew]

Know I am not sure what this is all about.
I thought the problem was that the #1 and #4 header pipe reached out farther and would come in contact with the bottom of them SI-SIII water cooled manifold. Is this not the problem?

Jim Stone was forced to grind down the bottom of the intake manifold at two points so that they would not come in contact with the header pipe.
See this thread:
http://www.sunbeamalpine.org/forum/showthread.php?t=9911&page=2

Should one weld a set of ear/supports on Bills header?
I have yet to have my header coated, is it better to try and grid off a bit of the header or beat a flat area into #1 and #4 header pipe to clear the intake manifold?

Andrew