Alpine Judging Guide

[Alpine 1789]

Jim Lindner, President of TEAE, has been working on a guide for event judges to use when assessing factory correct Alpines. The entire Alpine community owes a thanks to Jim, who is a Tiger owner but has poured a lot of work into the effort. Besides serving as a guide to concours judging, this should also provide a great reference for anyone restoring an Alpine.

Jim has already gotten quite a lot of assistance from several SAOCA members, but is still in need of more information and photos:

I have an over abundance of Series V info and photos. Series 3 has pretty good input from Tiger Tom and Eric Smyder’s car. I really need help on Series I, II and IV/IVa. You have the latest update of the guide (I have already added more) and the list of photos I need.​

It would be great if any of our SI, SII or SIV members are able to help. Please contact me and I will put you in touch with Jim.

Thanks.

 

[VaCat33]

Thanks for the kind words Jim. I started this effort two years ago but gave it up because it just seemed overwhelming. During this pandemic winter, I found I had quite a bit of discretionary time so I jump started the effort. I have already received help from several SAOCA members and have also found the SAOCA website and forum to be invaluable. We are progressing nicely but there is still much to do. I am attaching a list of photos we need. I think Jim S has a day, job so you can send them directly to be at my club email President@teae.org
Photos of components or parts should be on the car so we can see how the part is fitted. Try not to get views that are not to close...or too far. Other views can be more panoramic.

Thanks

Jim

 

[ernestovumbles]

I have a S3-GT but have owned it for less than a year and no idea how original it is..

I have some pics on my Flickr site that include the dash and other parts.
If the car is good enough I could take more of whatever you need.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ernestovumbles/albums/72157714168399646

 

[VaCat33]

Thanks for the response. I have pretty good coverage on the S3. I needed GT dash and steering wheel, but your wheel in not stock and the dash looks pretty good except for your non-factory “ejector button.”

could also use some engine pics but yours seems to have several non-stock items that would be difficult to crop out.

I did not see this in your album but I need a shot of the rear compartment showing rear and side panels and the correct seat cushions.

Thanks again

Jim

 

[Alpine 1789]

I was trying to think of a member with a correct SIV and remembered that we used to have a member from the UK with an incredibly low mileage, unmolested SIV Automatic. As I recall, he posted quite a few photos here and ultimately sold the car to someone who also joined the club. I spent a little time searching here, but need better search terms. Can anyone supplement my aging memory?

 

[ernestovumbles]

Thanks Jim..

My rear compartment wont help either.. I am missing the correct panels and it is uncovered/open at the moment.
I have a set of trunk panels that came with the car, but they look like they are for a newer series Alpine.
The seat back and bottom are recovered as well, so also no good for you.

Sorry,
Steve



I did not see this in your album but I need a shot of the rear compartment showing rear and side panels and the correct seat cushions.

Thanks again

Jim

 

[husky drvr]

I was trying to think of a member with a correct SIV and remembered that we used to have a member from the UK with an incredibly low mileage, unmolested SIV Automatic. As I recall, he posted quite a few photos here and ultimately sold the car to someone who also joined the club. I spent a little time searching here, but need better search terms. Can anyone supplement my aging memory?

Jim,

John Boggis was the owner. 2015 thread link.

http://forum.sunbeamalpine.org/index.php?threads/john-boggis-siv-pics.23343/

 

[VaCat33]

The guide is focused on LH drive cars, but I did find a couple photos of this car while searching the internet and used one full car side shot to show general configuration of Series IV (round corners on doors.) You cannot notice the RH drive all that much in the photo.

Thanks for the input...keep it coming.

Jim

 

[VaCat33]

Hello Again,

It has been a week since Jim Stone opened this thread. Just another plug asking for help in getting the photos we need for the Alpine Judging Guide. If you have an original, near original or correctly restored car we really need your help. Even if your car is modified but still retains certain original parts and features you may be able to help. I am attaching an updated list of the photos we need. As you can see, we are especially needy of SI and SII photos.
You can forward all photos to President@teae.org

Thanks
Jim Lindner

 

[ALC 68A]

The guide is focused on LH drive cars, but I did find a couple photos of this car while searching the internet and used one full car side shot to show general configuration of Series IV (round corners on doors.) You cannot notice the RH drive all that much in the photo.

Thanks for the input...keep it coming.

Jim

Are you interested in photos of RHD cars at all? My S3 GT was restored and converted to a soft top, although using the proper folding panels, so the body style is not original, but under the bonnet, it has the correct twin Zenith 36 WIA carbs with the batwing air filter assembly, used only in the first half of S3 GT production. Is that of any use to you? Although the interior looks authentic, it has been completely retrimmed as a copy of the original using modern materials, so is no use for concours judging in terms of real originality. However, the retrimmed seats are the original S3 GT items with the separate side bolsters and centre cushions so they are visually correct, if that is of any interest to you.

Regards

Steve Grant

 

[VaCat33]

Are you interested in photos of RHD cars at all? My S3 GT was restored and converted to a soft top, although using the proper folding panels, so the body style is not original, but under the bonnet, it has the correct twin Zenith 36 WIA carbs with the batwing air filter assembly, used only in the first half of S3 GT production. Is that of any use to you? Although the interior looks authentic, it has been completely retrimmed as a copy of the original using modern materials, so is no use for concours judging in terms of real originality. However, the retrimmed seats are the original S3 GT items with the separate side bolsters and centre cushions so they are visually correct, if that is of any interest to you.

Regards

Steve Grant

Steve

I could definitely use a few shots of the batwing air filter set up. I can crop the photos to eliminate most of the evidence of RHD car. You can send them to President@teae.org

Thanks

Jim

 

[Alpine 1789]

Jim: absunbeam currently has a bunch of things listed in the For Sale forum, one of which is a SI center console: http://forum.sunbeamalpine.org/index.php?threads/winter-sale-si-sii.29471/#post-212212. Note the hole for the lock immediately across from the lock. It makes me think these were designed to open differently for LHD and RHD cars. I would think the tops should open and lock from the driver's side, which - if I am right - would make this one from a RHD car. Does anyone know which way the US spec cars opened?

 

[puff4]

Interesting. But funny enough, although indeed there is a lock hole cutout on both sides, there's no cutout for the hinges on the other side! You suppose they just did that with tin-snips on the assembly line, as needed?

 

[Alpine 1789]

Good catch. I have no idea, although I think I have a SI around my garage somewhere. I'll look at it if I ever find it.

 

[VaCat33]

Jim: absunbeam currently has a bunch of things listed in the For Sale forum, one of which is a SI center console: http://forum.sunbeamalpine.org/index.php?threads/winter-sale-si-sii.29471/#post-212212. Note the hole for the lock immediately across from the lock. It makes me think these were designed to open differently for LHD and RHD cars. I would think the tops should open and lock from the driver's side, which - if I am right - would make this one from a RHD car. Does anyone know which way the US spec cars opened?

Thanks Jim.I can use this photo as a place holder. I think we will need to see a photo of the console in a car to confirm on what side the hinges and lock are located.

Jim

 

[Alpine 1789]

I just spent a little time googling to see if I could find a good photo of a RHD SI. I can't guarantee that this is right, but I did find this:

According to the description, this car was originally sold in Sweden. I wouldn't call it proof positive, but it does suggest that the driver's side hole wasn't used. http://www.albionmotorcars.com/sold/detail/242/sunbeam-alpine-mk1-1960-rallye-monte-carlo-winner

 

[jdoclogan]

This is what I know:

From two consoles (one in an original left hand drive Series 1 Alpine I have and one from my parts shelves) I conclude the following:

1) The Series 1 Alpine console was only made with a right to left opening lid. Yes, there is a lock cutout to adapt for a left hand drive car. However there wasn't a stamped out hinge for the left hand drive car. And possibly Rootes didn't even make a lid with hinges and lock latch opening appropriate for the left hand drive Alpines.


2) Rootes most likely got complaints from left hand drive Series 1 Alpine consumers about the awkward console lid. Still usable, just not as convenient.

3) A Rootes designer/engineer came up with a simple solution. Series II - V Alpines have a front lock and lid opens from the front edge and hinged at the back. This makes it convenient and universal for both right and left and drive vehicles.



4) Apparently unique to a Harrington Le Mans (at least the promotional model I have) there is a flip up piece that can keep the console lid from flopping all the way back.

 

[bernd_st]

Wasn't that little flip up piece on the HLM for holding the backrest level once it's folded down ?

 

[jdoclogan]

Well, I learn something everyday. I think you are correct Bernd. Too funny, I never saw the need to use it for that purpose. In any case that addition to the console is unique to the Harrington Le Mans. Does your HLM have that feature as well?

 

[Alpine 1789]

I have been looking at the parts manual, figuring that different part numbers, if they existed, would answer the question. Interestingly, I cannot find the console anywhere. Maybe someone else will have better luck? http://sunbeamalpine.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Alpine-parts-manual-SI-SV-searchable-v2.pdf