'69 Alpine/Rapier differences

[Rodewaryer]

Ok, so, after seeing the delightful white Rapier in the pics from Invasion, I have a question. I had an Alpine coupe and still have a straight restorable '69 Alpine GT, (those differences I know) but what's the difference between the Alpines and the Rapier? Was the Rapier trimmed out special? Have a manual trans? Special suspension maybe?

 

[RootesRooter]

I've always read that the Alpine GT sold in No. America was basically the same as the Rapier sold elsewhere, same trim and instruments. Same 4-speed standard, auto tranny also available. Differences: GT carbs were the 150CDSE's to meet U.S. smog standards; I think Rapiers stuck with 150CD's, at least at first. (A '73 Rapier on the U.K. eBay appeared to still have CD's.) The automatic GT's came with 3.7 gears - don't know if the automatic Rapier followed suit. I was told once that No. American spec fastback bodies were designed slightly stiffer to meet U.S. crash standards, but haven't been able to verify it. Also, the earliest GT I saw didn't yet have high-back seats, again required in the U.S. around 1968 or 1969. Rapiers may have been longer to adopt those seats.

Dick Sanders
Kent, WA

Ok, so, after seeing the delightful white Rapier in the pics from Invasion, I have a question. I had an Alpine coupe and still have a straight restorable '69 Alpine GT, (those differences I know) but what's the difference between the Alpines and the Rapier? Was the Rapier trimmed out special? Have a manual trans? Special suspension maybe?

 

[RootesRooter]

Oh, and the GT carried the "GT" badge on the C pillar. The Rapier used the same Rootes dog/lion-on-a-crown emblem found on the Alpine Coupe.

 

[65beam]

69 alpine / rapier

dick,
you're right on . the rapier was called the alpine GT here in the U.S. there also was another version called the alpine which is the same as the alpine in the U.K. the alpine GT/rapier had the 1725 alloy head engine with U.S. cars having the emission carbs that have no mixture adjustments . the alpine had the cast iron head 1725 with a single carb and a lot of junk added to the intake to meet emissions .??? the automatic trans cars did have 3.70 gears here in the U.S. don't know about the U.K. on four speed cars ,the 3.89 was used. i have not seen a 69 with overdrive here in the U.S. i started to put it in my car but installed a 3.70 instead. another difference is that the alpine GT / rapier had a two piece driveshaft and the alpine had a one piece .the white 69 that was at the invasion is lots different from stock. it started life as a 69 alpine GT. it now has an interior that is a combination of cloth and vinyl. it was a low mileage car that was parked in a garage in washington D.C. in 1973 .the interior was in excellent shape with no tears except for a very small one next to the handbrake so it was easy to make it close to the original. it has a ton of NOS parts on it. it also carries the GT badges on the top pillars along with NOS rapier emblems from the U.K. it drives like a new car since it really has had almost every part in the drive line replaced except for the front springs and the sway bar . it took two years to build and to personalize it . since the invasion ,tiger auto installed the rocker mouldings and the wheel well mouldings ,which are very close to the MK2 tiger mouldings.this winter it gets a vintage air unit installed . it also has a hidden am/fm radio with the controls installed in the console where the ash tray used to be , a late model GM rearview mirror with map lights and several other neat items also. we parked it in the parking lot at the local kohls store saturday evening and it drew quite a crowd .

 

[65beam]

69 alpine

dick,
doug at tiger auto and i were talking about the front frame rails on the 69's last thursday. they have a heavy plate welded to the rails in the fender wells.not in the engine compartment but in the wheel area. all of my 69's have this and it may have been used to meet crash requirements . ????

 

[Rodewaryer]

How about some pics of Alpine GT's or the nice white Rapier on this thread? The ones from the invasion post were smallish.......

 

[64beam]

Hi,

Here are some picture of my Parents Rapier Fastback. This is an Australian concourse winning car. For sale if anyone is interested.

Regards, Robin.

 

[Rootes 66]

dick,
doug at tiger auto and i were talking about the front frame rails on the 69's last thursday. they have a heavy plate welded to the rails in the fender wells.not in the engine compartment but in the wheel area. all of my 69's have this and it may have been used to meet crash requirements . ????

Bob there's an inner stiffner too on the LHD models together with a heavy strengthener inside the side members on all fastback models. These latter strengtheners were to compensate for the lack of B Post and reduce body flexing. Pete

 

[RootesRooter]

In the pictures of the white GT at the Invasion, I noticed that it didn't have the normal soundproofing found on GT's on the underside of the engine bonnet and on the firewall bulge. Was this just for looks? The GT's I've test-driven were all much quieter than the two Coupes (sans soundproofing) I've owned.

dick,
you're right on . the rapier was called the alpine GT here in the U.S. there also was another version called the alpine which is the same as the alpine in the U.K. the alpine GT/rapier had the 1725 alloy head engine with U.S. cars having the emission carbs that have no mixture adjustments . the alpine had the cast iron head 1725 with a single carb and a lot of junk added to the intake to meet emissions .??? the automatic trans cars did have 3.70 gears here in the U.S. don't know about the U.K. on four speed cars ,the 3.89 was used. i have not seen a 69 with overdrive here in the U.S. i started to put it in my car but installed a 3.70 instead. another difference is that the alpine GT / rapier had a two piece driveshaft and the alpine had a one piece .the white 69 that was at the invasion is lots different from stock. it started life as a 69 alpine GT. it now has an interior that is a combination of cloth and vinyl. it was a low mileage car that was parked in a garage in washington D.C. in 1973 .the interior was in excellent shape with no tears except for a very small one next to the handbrake so it was easy to make it close to the original. it has a ton of NOS parts on it. it also carries the GT badges on the top pillars along with NOS rapier emblems from the U.K. it drives like a new car since it really has had almost every part in the drive line replaced except for the front springs and the sway bar . it took two years to build and to personalize it . since the invasion ,tiger auto installed the rocker mouldings and the wheel well mouldings ,which are very close to the MK2 tiger mouldings.this winter it gets a vintage air unit installed . it also has a hidden am/fm radio with the controls installed in the console where the ash tray used to be , a late model GM rearview mirror with map lights and several other neat items also. we parked it in the parking lot at the local kohls store saturday evening and it drew quite a crowd .

 

[Rodewaryer]

Very nice indeed. I probably put 5k or so on my Coupe (Dark blue) as a daily driver and had the light blue GT stored (and still do) awaiting the time and fundage to restore it.

These pics are pretty old but when I put the GT into better storage facilities it hadn't noticebly changed.....

Look at how straight it is. I gave around $300 (back around 1988) to some guy that wanted to cutting torch it and turn it into some tacky hot rod. Even if I don't get around to the resto, I'm relieved it didn't suffer that indignity.

 

[65beam]

69 alpine

rootesrooter,
i did not reuse the hood insulation for several reasons, the first is that it was forty years old and looked ratty and the other was why confine heat to the engine compartment. my car is very quiet due to the insulation and sound deadning material installed since this is a bare metal restoration of a rust free car.nothing was overlooked or untouched during the restoration .as far as the foam on the heater area i feel it looks much better without it, plus my wife said not to put it on so who am i to disagree with her . she is quite the sunbeam fanatic .we have several stock sunbeams and our intent with this car was to build what we wanted for a driver.

 

[Rodewaryer]

Check out this model on ebay, already getting a little pricey....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190255811081&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=009

Stumbled across one more picture of my old siblings, this time together.....

I have to admit I'd likely follow suit with the removal of the bonett and heater insulation. I don't find it a fun thing to deal with and even when it's done right it's not a lot of fun to keep clean.

 

[65beam]

69 alpine

we have a midnight blue alpine ( not a GT ) like the one in your photo .it has the auto trans in it . we also had a capri blue GT and a claret metallic GT that we have now scrapped out since we lost storage space when we sold one of our homes . the kid and i took the white car on a road trip saturday and it is so well insulated that with the windows up ,we heard very little motor sounds . it turns 3200 rpm at 65 mph .once we get the A.C. unit in ,it will be the ultimate sunbeam cruiser, it now has close to 300 miles on it and everything appears to be right .the hood insulation was really brittle and got tossed and leaving the foam off the firewall makes everything look so much cleaner .

 

[RootesRooter]

So the lack of underhood insulation, particularly on the firewall hump, didn't add any decibels inside? The insulated GT's I test-drove always seemed quieter than my two Coupes, which didn't come with insulation.

we have a midnight blue alpine ( not a GT ) like the one in your photo .it has the auto trans in it . we also had a capri blue GT and a claret metallic GT that we have now scrapped out since we lost storage space when we sold one of our homes . the kid and i took the white car on a road trip saturday and it is so well insulated that with the windows up ,we heard very little motor sounds . it turns 3200 rpm at 65 mph .once we get the A.C. unit in ,it will be the ultimate sunbeam cruiser, it now has close to 300 miles on it and everything appears to be right .the hood insulation was really brittle and got tossed and leaving the foam off the firewall makes everything look so much cleaner .

 

[65beam]

69 alpine

the hump on the firewall is where the heater fan sets . the insulation that was used was very thin foam .when the wife and i restore a car ,we strip it to a bare shell and i do mean bare . this car was taken back to bare metal and that is where we started. we installed dynamat on the entire firewall before we started to install anything . carpet is glued to the firewall behind the instument panel. the doors and side panels also have dynamat. jute insulation with the foil is glued to the body behind the back seat and to the floor under the back seat. the carpet has the same foil backed jute glued to it ,so it's pretty quiet inside the car. with the addition of 1/2 inch foam under the door panels ( it has a combination of cloth and vinyl interior ) we added even more insulation .i guess with all this added, it does not require the insulation under the hood area. besides that ,it looks a bunch better without the junk under the hood .

 

[RootesRooter]

Insulation on the inside of the firewall should do the trick. I figured that bell-shaped 'hump', if bare, would tend to amplify engine noise into the interior.

Do I recall correctly that GT's came with a small shock absorber attached to the left side motor mount, or am I thinking of a different car?

 

[65beam]

69 alpine

yes, they have a shock that is maybe 8 to 10 inches long .it attaches to the motor mount bracket on the motor and to the cross member.it's also on my 69 alpine . that's one part that i have never been able to find a new replacement . another hard to find part is the center support and the bearing for the two piece driveshaft on the GT .i was able to get them from speedy spares .the heater hoses are another problem with all the bends molded into them .

 

[Rodewaryer]

The engine bay insulation is a real dilemma. Any car I've had has the nasty stuff and whenever I detail the engine it's always 'shrug the shoulders' time......good choice you made in leaving it out.