• Welcome to the new SAOCA website. Already a member? Simply click Log In/Sign Up up and to the right and use your same username and password from the old site. If you've forgotten your password, please send an email to membership@sunbeamalpine.org for assistance.

    If you're new here, click Log In/Sign Up and enter your information. We'll approve your account as quickly as possible, typically in about 24 hours. If it takes longer, you were probably caught in our spam/scam filter.

    Enjoy.

32-36, Another Round

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
Saturday we went on a run with a car club from the Greenwood area. First thing I noticed was the familiar surge at mid teens with light throttle. WAIT A FRIGGING MINUTE! The engine was fine on Friday, now this? I've been down that road before, too many times. I decided to pull the intake manifold and carb as a unit to see If I could find anything wrong.

I'd installed the manifold gasket with RTV and it stuck goood. Destroyed the gasket removing the manifold. But it was evident there had been no vacuum leaks. The vacuum line to the boost/vacuum gauge had been damaged in the engine fire last summer, but on test still held vacuum. The vacuum line to the dizzy was a mess. It is supposed to be rated for fuel and vacuum use, but had malformed and hardened. Looked like it had a couple hundred thousand miles on it instead of two thousand. I don't think it had been holding a vacuum. The PCV line had suffered some fire damage, but appears to be intact. I will have to check it further. It is preformed and will be a hard piece to replace.

Removed the carb, mounting gaskets looked okay. Decided not to trust one of them on reinstall, so made a new one. Removed the jets and idle adjustment screw. The power jet appeared to be not seating , so I installed another one. The car floods and is difficult to start after setting an hour or so, hope that is the problem.

Everything else looked okay, shot compressed air through everything and reassembled. Checked the float level, The damn thing was back to where it had been on two previous occassions! It appears to be made of a mystery metal that creeps back to its previous configuration. But I adjusted the float back to .420", like the book states. Ran a file across the mounting face of the intake to remove some minor burrs it had accumulated over the years. Cut a new manifold gasket, stuck it onto the manifold with RTV, let it set for 4 hours with a flat piece of steel on it to hold it flat, greased the outer face and reinstalled with the carb mounted on the intake.

Being the eternal optimist, I reinstalled the 60 idle jet, thinking I had unwittingly solved the mystery of why the engine needs a huge idle jet. No go. Worked my way back to the 90 idle jet. The engine was now more sensitive to the idle adjustment screw and the idle was much improved. There is now a point at which the idle really falls off and I can actually get a decent idle. Previously, I had to settle for "best rough idle" which is hard to determine.

It was at this time I noticed the gasoline drip into the secondary. I put pressure on the secondary throttle plate, no impact on the drip. That is when I posted about that problem. Jarrids response prompted me to remove the carb, back off the secondary stop, loosen the throttle plate screws and recenter the throttle plate. Reset the stop and reinstalled the carb.

I thought "I've found the problem". "The secondary was not closing, causing a vaccum leak that prompted the use of the 90 jet." So I reinstalled the 70 jet. Ran crappy. Installed the 60. Not much difference. Installed the 90. Once again, that was the ticket. Runs best with idle adjustment backed out about two turns, so its not too big.

Took it out for a trial run. There was a slight surge remaining. How that can be is beyond me. Further checking the secondary found a slight drip that could be stopped with increased pressure on the throttle plate. I decided to use a stiffer return spring, could find nothing appropriate so I cut 4 or 5 coils off of another spring and used that . It appears to have solved the problem.

The carb is now set the same as it was, with the possible exception of the idle speed adjustment screw, but it idles much better.

I was fagged.

Bill
 

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
Just returned from a 1300 mile trip, here is a rundown on the carb and car in general.

Averaged 25 mpg for several tanks of gas, regardless of type of driving, varying only plus or minus one mpg. Kept smelling gas, finally found and stopped the leak, the next (final) tank got 28, running close to 70 mph for 260 miles. To me, that is very interesting information as it shows the carb really does need the 90 slow speed jet. I was afraid the low speed mileage would be terrible, but after fixing the leak, think it will be very tolerable.

It runs okay on 87 octane (some light ping), but does better on 89. Cannot see any mileage difference. In general, I have overgeared the engine. It comes up on the cam at 2700 rpm, but in 5th with the 3.55 gearing, is running about 70 mph. The gearing issue is really noticeable in hilly country on the Interstate, where it seems I'm always on the wrong side of the cam and working the engine pretty hard. Hardly noticeable here in Indiana, impossible to miss in Pennsylvania. The motor really is happy at about 3000 and 75 mph. I think a person would be better off with the 3.89 Alpine rear, unless you like to cruise at 80. Would also make it much peppier.

As a side note, I am pretty sure I will be selling the engine and transmission, along with motor mounts, as it looks like the Duratec install is going to pan out. Anyone interested, please email or PM me.

Bill
 

RootesRacer

Donation Time
Bill,

If you are sure you are pinging, I'm kinda surprised that running the higher octane doesnt yield better mileage.

I know with city driving, there is usually a marked gain in mileage (w/ higher octane) when the engine pings (w/ lower octane).

Major reason is that HP, Torque and mechanical efficiency drop a few degrees
prior to detection of ping. This means there is usually a few degrees between ideal timing and the initiation of audible ping.

My jeep gets close to 10% better fuel economy with 91 vs 85 octane fuel.
This mainly becuase the engine is old and carbon in the chambers keeps the engine from running on 85 octane fuel. Unfortunately there is a 10% differential in cost between 85 and 91 fuel so from cost standpoint, there is no benefit (for me).
 

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
Jarrid, I don't doubt a word you said, but you have to keep in mind any comparison I may try to make would undoubtedly be flawed. It seems I change one thing or another from tank to tank and the experiment with 89 octane while running N/A happened on the trip, when every tankful was under different conditions. I will go so far as to say the best mileage I got while leaking gasoline, occured with 89. It was about 1 mpg better than my best with 87, but 2 mpg worse than 89 while not leaking. I just hate to make claims I cannot back up.

Bill
 

George Coleman

Gold Level Sponsor
Bill, I would like to know is the 3.55 gear in a stock Alpine rear end? Or is this a different rear setup. I am using a Toyota 5speed and a 3.70 gear, I was just wondering were you go the 3.55? Thanks.
 

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
Bill, I would like to know is the 3.55 gear in a stock Alpine rear end? Or is this a different rear setup. I am using a Toyota 5speed and a 3.70 gear, I was just wondering were you go the 3.55? Thanks.

Its a Ford 8". The trans is a Ranger 5 speed with a .80 5th, which combines to be too much for the Pinto 2.0. I don't think you want one.

Bill
 

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
Finally tracked down the light throttle surge: PCV valve. I was using the 40 year old valve. Installed a new "Shouldwork" with little improvement. Decided to bit the bullet and get a new one that was correct for the 2.0. Vast improvement, still not perfect. Lost the new valve (literally, only 560 miles from home), cobbled up to run without the PVC valve, ran best of all, although the idle had to be turned up. Upon arriving at home, reinstalled the Shouldwork, problem returned.

Bill
 

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
Hard to tell exactly what the vacuum is, the dash gauge is acting goofy and I don't have a trouble shooting vacuum gauge. At idle, I'd say it probably in the mid teens and holds steady. Under the light throttle conditions that cause surge, vacuum is much higher.

Bill
 

RootesRacer

Donation Time
Hard to tell exactly what the vacuum is, the dash gauge is acting goofy and I don't have a trouble shooting vacuum gauge. At idle, I'd say it probably in the mid teens and holds steady. Under the light throttle conditions that cause surge, vacuum is much higher.

Bill

Bill, a lot of folks these days are going with a bleed instead of a PCV valve.
An air bleed is much more consistent all things the same, and doesnt stick
on you like a PCV valve.

You might try a needle valve where your PCV goes, but make sure you have good oil baffling/condensor with a drainback to the sump.
 

norville

Donation Time
I only ask, from past experiences. I've been burned in the past trying to figure out engine trouble. More than once it was a vac leak, although the engine ran. I was able to cover up the initial problem, a vac leak. I would adjust the timing, set the carb , and play with it for weeks only to discover something fairly simple. Like my vacuum advance was bad causing a vac leak just off idle.

Just a thought , I've invested in a inexpensive vac gauge and I have a small gauge from a tool that I also use. It helps me setup carbs and timing ect... I generally use a timing light to rough in the engine then tweek it with idle vac. Same goes for the carb. The vac gauge is much more sensitive than my ears...( always set the idle screw 1/16 to 1/8 turn fat also.

bob
 

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
I'm through chasing that gremlin. The car is drivable, just a little annoying at some times. I'd been suspecting the PCV valve for some time, wish I'd known about the bleed.

I posted this little ditty mostly to help anyone that may be experiencing the same problem with any engine. Three more months and the car comes in for the GREAT TRANSFORMATION.

Now to measure up that starter housing and get started on another Adventure. If this works, the Alpine mods to accept the Duratec will be a rather minor cut out of the crossmember.

Bill
 
Top