1966 Alpine Voted Best Of Class San Diego Miata Engine Swap ??

[lastingimp]

my polar white alpine is an almost perfect original and was voted best of class at 2009 San Diego British Car Days, i am now considering upgrading my engine and tranny to a miata...any comments would be appreciated ...Dick...lastingimp@aol.com...present engine and tranny work fine and will be available when swap is made

 

[RootesRacer]

You are taking an award winning alpine and putting in a Miata engine?

Its your car but there are a great many less pristine vehicles out there for engine swaps and unreversible mods.

 

[Green67Alpine]

You are taking an award winning alpine and putting in a Miata engine?

Its your car but there are a great many less pristine vehicles out there for engine swaps and unreversible mods.

I agree, but then again it's your car.

Tom j

 

[alpine_64]

I'm going with DO YOU KNOW WHATS INVOLVED IN DOING THIS???

IIRC there are issues with the headers, cam cover height at front, clashes with the alpine steering box then there are the connection issues of miata 'box to alpine rear...

what would make you decide miata? and then as others have mentioned.. why with a "prisitine" example.. you would be better off going with a ford 2.8 V6 + 5 speed conversion over what you are considering.

just my .02

 

[65beam]

best of class

let's see some photos of the car.

 

[SIVAllan]

I agree, but then again it's your car.

Tom j

I also agree...

 

[alpine1963]

Ditto! There are plenty of Alpines begging to get back on the road and they would even be glad to go to the darkside to help them from rusting away somewhere. Why take a good one and do that? Again, it's your car so you may do whatever to her.

Cheers,

 

[Series6]

Dick,

First off, welcome to our happy little corner of the internet...

Since you're new to this forum, and you asked for comments, I'd have to recommend standing by for a bit . Might talk to a few "Stock" members and a few of us Darksiders. I'm a confirmed Darksider but I'd be the first to suggest that, if your car is that sharp, seriously consider keeping it that way. That said.....

If you are determined to do a transplant I'd suggest selling your nice stock car (and getting all the money for it) and using the funds to bankroll a V6/T5 swap where you'll get plenty of support and advice from members here, rather than reinvent the wheel.

Echoing what other members have said the greatest concern is taking a nice car and then trying a conversion that "breaks ground" and may prove to be either impractable, or too expensive to complete, or require fabrication skills you may not have or have access to.

If you have the space and the funds you might consider keeping the car and for your need for speed, build a second car and do it to the 9's........

Last point... Last year my car took first in class at the major Brit event here in Phoenix. The votes came from the owners of all the cars/makes entered. I voted for a stock finned car that the owner not only drove to SUNI but all over the west coast. Maybe the paint wasn't as shiney as my car, but it was reliable and as far as I was concerned it was a better example of the Marque. Stock restored examples, or survivors in good/great condition, are important to preserve and maintain. There are plenty of cars looking for good owners.

 

[Cactusmasher]

Miata??? What the......

Whoever is trying to talk you into the Miata swap is ignorant about Sunbeam engine compartment dimensions and issues. By far, the easiest and most beneficial Sunbeam swap is the FORD 2.8 V6. When completed, it looks like a factory installation, like it was made for the Sunbeam. I don't know the horsepower of a Miata engine, but it cannot possibly match the realm of the 2.8 V6. I suspect the advisor/mechanic is seeing dollar signs coming in from this swap. Swap a four banger for a four banger does not make sense. A stock 260 Tiger comes in at 164 horsepower, is front heavy and has steering issues that make it so one has to drive it carefully to avoid a spinout on a hard turn. There are no such problems with the V6 conversion. The first 2.8 I built came in at 180 horsepower. With the T5 transmission and 3.55 gears with a traction-lok rear, the whole thing weighs within 40 pounds of the original drive train. I never lost a race with it. My current V6 swap has 220 horsepower with an identical drive train. There is no factory built Miata in Arizona that could out run my Alpine. There is one guy that has a Miata with all late model Corvette running gear that I wouldn't want to mess with, but that's it. My vote is to forget the Miata idea and leave your very nice Alpine alone....there's too many that are non-stock cars out there and not enough examples of the originals. I agree that if you want a performance Sunbeam, sell the original and invest in a good roller without an engine and running gear and modify it to your heart's content. Any of us on this forum will help you with the information you might need and some can even sell you the necessary parts and pieces. The guys here are a friendly bunch and often give great deals on parts to help out a fellow Sunbeamers. I have been into Sunbeams for over 20 years and owned 12 Alpines and 3 Tigers so far, built one V6 conversion and currently finishing a second one. I have restored several Alpines also, so I guess you could say I work the light side and the dark side with these cars. Good luck with your decision....it's your car and you are certainly entitled to do what you want with it....but a Miata????

 

[Bill Blue]

I would not screw with putting a Miata into a perfect Alpine, at least not as a first go. I say buy a rough Alpine, put the Miata in it, then decide if you want to do the same with the nice car.

Having put two different engines (Pinto 2.0 and Duratec 2.3) into an Alpine, I think I can safely say these projects never go as planned and are gobs of work. The Alpine is a bad car to choose as an engine recipient. It seems there always are "issues", usually solvable, but at what price? By price, I mean not only to the pocket book, but to the Alpine.

If you are dissatisfied with the power of your engine, consider building a Chevy rod Rootes engine and Toyota 5 speed transmission. Guys that have done these are very satisfied with the results, 120 or so hp and very drivable, probably close to what the Miata would offer.

As to swapping a four into the Alpine, one of the fastest, drivable Alpines is a turbocharged Ford 2.3. I think the guy was claiming 300+ horsepower. As a side note, I'm close to 200 hp in the internally stock Duratec.

Bill

 

[mototron]

Hey Bill
Can you post some pics of your duratec 2.3 conversion
I was thinking of that conversion for my Alpine Race car
What mods have you done to the Motor ?
Thanks
Rocco

 

[Series6]

One last thing all of us with V6 conversions forget to include since we all love the performance of the V6...

Reliability.

 

[Bill Blue]

Hey Bill
Can you post some pics of your duratec 2.3 conversion
I was thinking of that conversion for my Alpine Race car
What mods have you done to the Motor ?
Thanks
Rocco

Yeah, but let's not mess up this thread. I will start another.

Bill

 

[V6 JOSE]

Maybe Lasting Gimp has had this Alpine for many years, and has an emotional attachment to it. To sell it just to do a conversion would be unthinkable. Maybe he just wants more reliability, and not interested in more power necessarily. In this case, the V6 is perfect for his Alpine, because it will not only be reliable, but easier to drive than a four cylinder, because the V6 has lots more torque, which makes driving it in town easier.

The V6 conversion will be easier than any other non stock engine conversion, which means it will be cheaper and quicker to do, in the long run.

If Lasting Gimp loves his pristine Alpine now, with the V6, he will be proud to show it off with the V6 sitting in it's engine bay, because it will not look like a conversion.

More reliability, more power, more torque, less work to convert it, less money spent on doing the the conversion, less down time, and a proven product, all add up to a winner in my book.

Jose

 

[britbeam]

Without a doubt in my mind I can say the V6 2.8 is the easiest to install conversion engine in a Alpine. Reliability is absolute. The only issues Ive had(1) was due to using a junkyard distributor. My fault not the conversion. The conversion changes the car to a drive anywhere anytime car.Now addressing the modifying of a pristine show winner NO I wouldnt do it. If you look long enough you can find a solid Alpine to convert. I would NOT farm out my whole car for someone to convert. I have had some things accomplished by other mechanics but if your thinking about turning over a car for a complete restoration you may as well turn your wallet inside out and thats what will be left of your money.Oh also theres the time it takes to get it finished and the quality of the job. Some how theres always quicker money to be made in a shop than your long term project. Unless you have unlimited supply of greenbacks go with the V6 do it once ,do it right ,maintain it and you will drive it for a lifetime. Performance is what you build mild or wild you will be happy you chose the V6.
Dwain V6 Krazy

 

[RootesRacer]

Umm, his "call" is lastingimp like lasting imp or lasting impressions, not lasting gimp, which is something totally different.

I hope we didn't scare him away, a newby might be put off by some of our directness as he may not understand the dynamics of this group.

 

[britbeam]

Yes we are direct group but at the same time we wouldnt want anything but the best for someone. Better to be direct than give misinformation. So if lastgimp is out there jump on in here. You will find a great group of members ready to help you through their experiences.
Dwain V6 Krazy

 

[H One-Twenty]

Come on guys, his name is Dick and his 'call' is lastingimp, not "lasting gimp" or "last gimp"

I begin to wonder if this is a wind-up? the email address is real though

 

[socorob]

My current V6 swap has 220 horsepower with an identical drive train.

Did you get this to the rear wheels on a dyno, and what did you do to the 2.8 to get that out of it? Im thinking about going into the engine over this winter and looking to see what my options are.

 

[socorob]

Come on guys, his name is Dick and his 'call' is lastingimp, not "lasting gimp" or "last gimp"

I begin to wonder if this is a wind-up? the email address is real though

thats the first thing i wondered, dick... last in gimp... remember pulp fiction