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1725 oil pressure relief valve

SIVAllan

Gold Level Sponsor
Todd, RootsRacer, all, I have access thanks to a neighbor to an external known good oil pressure guage and a bunch of fittings. Maybe I can find a fitting in the pile or at a hardware store to test hooked directly to the oil pressure line outlet from the block. That should eliminate the gauge and the line to it. Given what has been found so far it would not surprise me to find more goo in the oil pressure line, or even if possible in some piece of the oil pump mechanism. Is that even remotely possible?

I have no regrets concerning the purchase of this southern car, even if southern fried has been more apt for various components:) , but it fooled me. I thought it had been recently driven; now think it recently came out of storage for how long is anyone's guess.

I have to write a presentation for a class tomorrow night, so will keep pondering this but can't get at it until Friday:( .

Allan
 

RootesRacer

Donation Time
You dont need to remove the current oil pressure line to tap in another gauge, there are several (three I think) NPT fittings on the side of the block, all of which go into the main oil galleries just like the stock oil gauge tube.

This you should see when you get down there.
 

tigretr

Donation Time
Just a few words of caution. Be careful taking those plugs out of the side of the block and screwing something new in. As you screw a new fitting in you may break some stuff loose from the threads and from there it goes straight to the bearings. I would recommend replacing the tube to your gauge before messing with the oil galley!

Brian
 

SIVAllan

Gold Level Sponsor
I looked at the plugs, and rather than try and get one out, decided to unhook the oil gauge fitting, and hook up the remote gauge at that location.

I found (finally) in the SV parts car bits a late model oil filter base and OPR valve; they are dissambled and being cleaned now after sitting in a boot for 20+ years.

Apparently the base changed as the OPR changed. The "new one" has threads at the other end for example. It's off a Nov 67 car, and I'd think that was the last one.

Unfortunatly ran into a couple side issues, but hope to test the oil pressure this week.

Allan
 

SIVAllan

Gold Level Sponsor
AirPine's motor is now out of the car, resting in peace in the driveway.:)

Tomorrow it gets degreased, then moved into a basement work area for teardown and rebuild...

Sometime next week I hope to post why it locked.

Pulling the motor was straightforward. It came out smoothly, at about a 60 degree angle with gearbox attached.

Hopefully nothing broke that is too challenging to fix.

Got to do some thinking on what kind of rebuild to do.

Allan
 

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SIVAllan

Gold Level Sponsor
With the head removed, and the flywheel/clutch assembly removed, the engine once again turns freely by hand:confused: .

The head looks Ok to an untrained eye - all parts present, nothing broken, rockers look good, presumably well oiled, pushrods all look straight.

A ruler measurement leads me to believe the block has been bored 0.40" over (that's 2 more bhp, right?;) ...)

Only two lifters would come out using my finger to pull them up. All the others seem to hit a "lip" at the top of their "lifter cylinder" and won't come out.

How do the lifters come out...?

Also, if anyone could advise how to remove the freeze plugs in order to clean out that would be a huge help.

#1 cylinder is noticeably cleaner than all others, and has faint traces of rust...

What malady in the head could cause a lockup - assuming the head is at fault? I don't see anything broken so far.

Thank you.

Allan
 

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Jim E

Donation Time
Lifters come out just like the ones you got out, they tend to have a build up of stuff or a wear area that makes them a little hard to pull out, but they will come out.

Freeze plugs, drive a screw driver thru the plug and pry it out.
 

RootesRooter

Donation Time
I can't find the post where you described the engine seizing up. Was it running normally and just froze, or was the starter engaged at the time?

Sounds like #1 cylinder might have been getting a 'bath' from a leaky head gasket. How did the gasket look? Any distortions or blackened 'trails' to the water jacket?

From the maladies you describe, I don't think you'll find the answers til you pull the pan.
 

SIVAllan

Gold Level Sponsor
Rootesracer,

I was trying to crank the engine when it froze. It had run fine several times for a minute or so each time. Once it turned the car around in the drive. It did not knock, rattle or smoke. Then it would not catch, would only spin, and then it locked while trying to crank it.

Even with the prop shaft, plugs and starter removed, it was locked.

The gearbox, now separated from the engine, spins freely when turned by hand.

The engine is now in the basement being torn down. I removed the sump, which has no caked on residue. Looks fresh.

The front two pistons are out. To my untrained eye they look Ok. Their rod bearings look new.

One of the removed pistons is missing the top ring. I wonder if a PO left it off, or if it is above the valves in pieces.

I hope to finish the tear down in a day or two. I've encountered an interruption.

A buddy is bringing by a device to measure the cylinders, pistons and bearings so that info is forthcoming.

Once I get the engine fully apart, I'll post pics, but here are two showing the head gasket at the rear, and the suspect rear cylinder.

If anything comes to mind that I should watch for in particular, please post your thoughts!:)

Thanks!

Allan
 

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SIVAllan

Gold Level Sponsor
Am still puzzling this together, but for sure the 1725 engine's camshaft is broken. It is NFG.:(

It's skinned as well as missing a chunk.

Not sure if it is a pre-existing break or what.

The corresponding lifter is also banged up and broken.

The associated pushrod is Ok so far as I can tell.

Any thoughts as to contributing factors?

I'm thinking there is some serious voodoo associated with the SIV. Gotta scrub it off somehow.

Allan
 

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RootesRacer

Donation Time
The cam thrust plate wasnt missing or broken by any chance was it?

What I see there looks like what happens when the cam "walks" out of its normal position and the lobe hits a lifter on its side instead of its center.
 

SIVAllan

Gold Level Sponsor
It will be a day or two before the engine's front is dismantled but it looks like that is present, can't tell if there is a break or not.
 

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RootesRacer

Donation Time
All you need to do to know for sure is to grab the cam sprocket and push and pull it.

If it moves, in any perceivable way something is not right.

BTW I also once saw this when someone put an incorrect bolt in the cam and it bottomed out before the sprocket tightened down to the cam (the sprocket is one half the thrust, the camshaft the other).
 

Green67Alpine

Former SAOCA Membership Director
Platinum Level Sponsor
Good grief Allen, The Air-pine is putting you through the wringer, but a couple of good things have happened already, at least you were in your driveway when the engine broke, and when your finished you'll feel comfortable driving 12+ hours to next years invasion.

Tom j
 

SIVAllan

Gold Level Sponsor
Tom, yeah, bad news good news I guess :).

Guess I'll have to read the WSM section on thrust and the front of the engine very closely.

I hope to have it all dismantled and on a stand for reassembly in a few days.

Lemme know if you are aware of a decent machine shop, ok? I'll ask Chic at Road Brittania also, see what those guys have to say.

I need some accurate measurements in order to know what parts will be needed to reassemble.

Allan
 

SIVAllan

Gold Level Sponsor
Finally have the engine torn down.

Found something else broken...didn't find the missing piece...

Once the timing chain/gears were off, the camshaft pushed in a few mm's easily. Is that normal?

The thrust plate around the cam had a spacer at each bolt.

A piece fell off the timing chain, one of the little plates. Is that chain history?

Now to get all the parts identified by size, clean the block, send the head off, and reassemble.

The pistons are Nepolite, looks like C size, can't tell yet for sure due to carbonization.

I think putting it back together is relatively straightforward, except for the front.

Taking care of thrust issues is going to require some homework, maybe help from a machine shop.

Any comments, ideas, suggestions are certainly welcome. I sure could use a guru!:)

Thanks.
 

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RootesRacer

Donation Time
Once the timing chain/gears were off, the camshaft pushed in a few mm's easily. Is that normal?
No its not normal at all, there should only be a few thousanths of an inch, a few mm's would be .080 thou, this would be very bad and the smoking gun as it were.

The thrust plate around the cam had a spacer at each bolt.
Cant picture what you mean. Sounds bod though, might need to replace the cam, sprocket and thrust plate to insure proper gap.
EDIT:
Oops saw your picture, those spacers dont belong there, perhaps DPO used bolts that were too long and they are acting as washers.
Before you go much further determine if the sprocket just wasnt fully home on the cam (cam bolt too long), else your sloppyness is due to wear on the cam/thrust plate.sprocket and you will need to replace all 3.


A piece fell off the timing chain, one of the little plates. Is that chain history?
Chains are cheap, you should always replace them.
If your intention is to button the motor up and never take it apart, I'd use the one piece chain, that is one that doesnt have a master link.
If you get in there often to pull out the cam ETC, the masterlink is an easy way to get the chain off without pulling the crank sprocket each time.


The pistons are Nepolite, looks like C size, can't tell yet for sure due to carbonization.
Hepolite.
C size, sounds like a bra.
It would likely be "C" grade, which if the motors never been rebuilt, there should be stampings at the top of the block also showing "C" grade, which means they were getting sloppy machining that day (probably a Monday).
 
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