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1592/1725 firing order differences

John W

Bronze Level Sponsor
Reading Tomcobras excellent thread and video bringing an Alpine engine back to life, I noticed the firing order was posted as 1342. So I checked the manuals available here and it appears the 1592 and 1725 have different firing orders? 1342 and 1243? I've been trying to diagnosis a horrible problem with my 1600 for weeks now and never questioned 1243 as the firing order from a glance at my 1725. Hard to believe two engines so similar have different firing orders?
 

John W

Bronze Level Sponsor
The workshop manual (WSM.145) clearly states on page 43 a firing order of 1243. WSM.124 on page 15 states the correct firing order as 1342. What's the difference, if I might test the knowledge and patience of those who know? Thanks in advance for the help.
 

John W

Bronze Level Sponsor
I see now the counterclockwise motion of the rotor...Just to help me clear this up, is the number one cylinder the one near the radiator, and do they progress two three four to the firewall? Thanks in advance.
 

Tom H

Platinum Level Sponsor
John, Do you mean the drawing on Page 43? Understand that the rotor goes CCW. So the order is 1342. Also see in the general Data, page 20 , of WSM 145 , it states "Firing Order 1342"

Tom
 

puff4

Platinum Level Sponsor
I see now the counterclockwise motion of the rotor...Just to help me clear this up, is the number one cylinder the one near the radiator, and do they progress two three four to the firewall? Thanks in advance.

The #1 position can be seen on page 38 of the WSM, and is the one nearest to the vacuum module.

You can also see the positions of the other wires, and given the rotor moves in an anti-colckwise manner, you can see that the order is indeed 1342.

http://www.rootes1725cc.info/wsm145/WSM_B/B_38.gif
 

John W

Bronze Level Sponsor
Tom, Yes, I'm referencing page 43, and I now see 1342 and 1243 are the same thing, just different directions. Guess I'm back at the drawing board with my problem. It's like only two cylinders are firing.
 

sunbby

Past SAOCA President
Donation Time
The workshop manual (WSM.145) clearly states on page 43 a firing order of 1243. WSM.124 on page 15 states the correct firing order as 1342. What's the difference, if I might test the knowledge and patience of those who know? Thanks in advance for the help.

Are you looking at the top down view of the distributor cap, I don't think it actually says the order is 1-2-4-3 anywhere?

You have to know the rotor rotates counter-clockwise, so from that picture the order is 1-3-4-2 which is correct.
 

John W

Bronze Level Sponsor
Thank you Kevin, I now see. I was really hoping I simply had some wires crossed. That would have been nice. Having replaced everything but the distributor, I suppose that's next as perhaps it's out of "round" or loose or something.
 

John W

Bronze Level Sponsor
Thanks, Mr Todd. Hopefully I'll have my problem solved by next April and not be the guy that arrives at the Invasion with an Alpine and toolbox on the back of flatbed begging for help!
 

Tom H

Platinum Level Sponsor
John W said:
Hopefully I'll have my problem solved by next April and not be the guy that arrives at the Invasion with an Alpine and toolbox on the back of flatbed begging for help!

I too hope you have your problems resolved by April. But know that if you bring your Alpine and a toolbox on a flatbed, you'll not have to "beg" for help. There will no doubt be several willing hands.

Tom
 

John W

Bronze Level Sponsor
Next year's Invasion is close to where I live so I'll probably make it and hopefully I won't be the guy bugging the heck out of everyone to fix my car while they're having a good time in kilts!
 

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
John, I've had distributor cams to wear so the points were not opening a sufficient amount on all cylinders, especially if the points were gapped a little on the tight side.

Bill
 

John W

Bronze Level Sponsor
Thanks Bill, The points are indeed gapped on tight side so I'll widen those a bit and see what happens.
 

sunbby

Past SAOCA President
Donation Time
Thanks, Mr Todd. Hopefully I'll have my problem solved by next April and not be the guy that arrives at the Invasion with an Alpine and toolbox on the back of flatbed begging for help!

Sorry, I didn't mean to pile on. I see everyone answered your question at the same time.

As some of the others said before, you might be a hero if you're the guy who shows up on a flatbed. At my 1st Invasion our Alpine blew up and we ended up changing the whole drivetrain overnight. Several people said that was their most enjoyable Invasion ever!
 

John W

Bronze Level Sponsor
I've gapped my points a little wider and nothing extra happened but I'm following Kevin Rodgers thread and I'm going to check wire connections next.
 

John W

Bronze Level Sponsor
Alrighty! After a year of grimacing about how things are below the mason dixon line, two days with wire grease, a wire brush, a new 800 cca battery, three distributor changes, five or six wire changes, plug changes, gap changes, carburetor change, electric pump addition, all of a sudden she comes to life! Not sure which change did it, but bingo! Initially one just cylinder one. then two came on board, and three and four still don't seem to work when idling, but do seem to work at speed. Finally just shut her off at about 2 am and am going to tidy up tomorrow evening and get her back on the road. Took the plugs out of 3 and four and they are firing but if I pull the plug wire at idle I can tell they aren't firing. Might just need some driving! I love the smell of the interior. Been parked under a carport for a year and it still has a "new car" smell to it. Tomorrow is going to be a good day! Not sure why I have to get on here and yak at nearly 3 am. Guess I'm glad I didn't wake the neighbors banging around. Nice stainless steel exhaust is still in perfect shape! There was this one big brown wire that went from where the battery negative connects to a terminal thing to the bottom of a box beside the terminal thing. It was brittle as heck. Probably that one wire the whole time. Who cares, long as it works. Probably time to rewire. Tomorrow is going to be a driving day! Or later today I guess I should say. The folks on this board are the absolute best there is at helping out.
 
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