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DuraPine II

Gordon Holsinger

Diamond Level Sponsor
An assembled Series Alpine front suspension crossmember is one of the most awkward, ill-balanced, temperamental, knuckle busting contraptions I have ever had the misfortune to work with. It will absolutely exhaust your inventory of four letter words.
Been there and done that!
 

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
Finished painting the underbody. The job consisted of high pressure wash with no cleaner. A spray of heavy duty cleaner, which was rinsed off with high pressure. Remaining combination of rusty metal, old undercoat and topcoat of paint was treated with a combination rust convertor and primer. That was topped with Rustoleum rubberized undercoating. The intent was to preserve what was there, not to fix anything. I chose this line of treatment as it promised protection for the next few years without extensive prep.

Here is the finished job, ready to be lowered and removed from the rotisserie.
IMG_6757.JPG

Bill
 

DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
Sure LOOKS different!

Bill can you please send me a copy of this picture? I want to point out something for you....
 

Barry

Diamond Level Sponsor
Sure LOOKS different!

Bill can you please send me a copy of this picture? I want to point out something for you....




Dan,

Right click on the picture and you should see the options to either copy the image or save the image as ...
 

DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
Thanks Barry!! I had tried that but I must have been doing something wrong. Worked this time after following your instructions:)
 

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
We got the axle installed. Plenty of work for a couple of old codgers working on rocks! We used an ordinary scissors jack and cribbing, a motley collection of a lot of stuff that has been floating around for ten years or so.IMG_6791.JPG You can see the rehabbed spring. The bracket adapts the Miata calipers to the Ford axle.

We (I mostly) also got the cross member lifted into place and bolted in. The allthread lifting rig worked just great. From the time I started lifting until it was bolted down was one hour, five minutes. The lifting process took 40 minutes.IMG_6787.JPG IMG_6789.JPG The 4 x4 laying across the fenders is resting on a pair of welders gloves. I had to use the 3lb hammer to move the 4 x 4 into final position to align the holes. I have lifted the cross member into place from below many times. Using a sling works better, makes bolt installation a breeze.

Bill
 

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
PROBLEM Put a wheel on and discovered an interference with the tie rod end. The wheel is either A) too deep or B) too small diameter. I lowered the tie more, which tends to center the rod on the wheel, thus gaining clearance as well as helping with bump steer, but still have interference. Its time to A) use a 1/4" spacer on the wheel, B) move the steering arm in about a 1/4" or C) buy new wheels.

How does moving the steering rod in impact steering?

Bill
 

Barry

Diamond Level Sponsor
PROBLEM Put a wheel on and discovered an interference with the tie rod end. The wheel is either A) too deep or B) too small diameter. I lowered the tie more, which tends to center the rod on the wheel, thus gaining clearance as well as helping with bump steer, but still have interference. Its time to A) use a 1/4" spacer on the wheel, B) move the steering arm in about a 1/4" or C) buy new wheels.

How does moving the steering rod in impact steering?

Bill



Bill,

Moving the tie-rod end inward will further reduce Ackermann which is inherently insufficient with the Tiger steering layout, but I doubt that 1/4" will make a noticeable difference. The only way to determine the amount and direction of any change would be to cycle the front suspension and steering and precisely measure the actual steering angles at multiple combinations.

Changing the wheel diameter / offset is a better technical solution, but moving the tie-rod end inward by 1/4" may be the better practical solution.
 

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
Thanks Barry. Measuring the impact is out of the question and swapping wheels is way easier said than done, what with the 11" rotors. I'm finding that brake/wheel clearance is as dependent on wheel design as wheel size. At first, I thought that going from the Saab 6" wheels to Saab 5 1/2" would be the solution. Some research determined that the 5 1/2" wheel protrudes in 1/32" farther the 6" wheel. Then we have to consider where the "belly" of the wheel is located. Ultimately, the only way to know if they will clear is to put them on. What a mess. So I guess it is time to establish exactly how much I have to move the arms. How much clearance should I have?

Bill
 

Barry

Diamond Level Sponsor
Thanks Barry. Measuring the impact is out of the question and swapping wheels is way easier said than done, what with the 11" rotors. I'm finding that brake/wheel clearance is as dependent on wheel design as wheel size. At first, I thought that going from the Saab 6" wheels to Saab 5 1/2" would be the solution. Some research determined that the 5 1/2" wheel protrudes in 1/32" farther the 6" wheel. Then we have to consider where the "belly" of the wheel is located. Ultimately, the only way to know if they will clear is to put them on. What a mess. So I guess it is time to establish exactly how much I have to move the arms. How much clearance should I have?

Bill



On my friend Alan Rhodes's Mk-II with 13x6 Panasports, the tie-rod ends clear the inner rim flange by about 1/8" and conventional "crimp-on" wheel balancing weights cannot be used. A miss is as good as a mile, but ....
 
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Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
This is how the steering arm looks after my attempts to modify it to accommodate my wheels.IMG_6813.JPG
Ugly? You betcha. Note the strap with the super washers welded on. Not at comfortable with the result. Comments requested. The part that sucks is that even with steering arm butchery and moving the arm in 1/4", I'm still going to have at least 1/8" wheel spacer for the right wheel.

But Bradly (AKA "Fergusonic") to the rescue. He arrived shortly before noon Sunday in his pickup loaded with one of his VTO wheels. 15 X 6 with 15 mm offset. It cleared the steering arm, even wit the arm placed in the unmolested position. A 200 mile round trip to help out a fellow Alpiner. The true Alpine spirit. Thank you Bradly.
 

Barry

Diamond Level Sponsor
Kudos to Bradly, glad you confirmed that 15x6 VTO wheels with +15 mm offset (about 4.1" backspace) clear the Tiger steering arms in the stock position.

Out of curiosity, what is the clearance between (a) the rim flange and the outer end of the upper A-arm and (b) the GM-metric calipers and the "inside" of the wheel?

IMO, 15x6 wheels with the right offset and 195/60-15 tires is a very good "fitment" on a Series Alpine or Tiger.
 

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
This is in reference to Bradly's wheels. About 1/8" between the arm and the wheel. This is at the "corner" of the wheel where I. D. of the tire fits against the rim. My old Alpine was space limited on the right front quarter, so 185 - 15's are the largest I've used. See no need to go to 195.
 

Barry

Diamond Level Sponsor
Bill,

As has been discussed here many times, keeping "wide" wheels / tires under the front fenders of a Series Alpine can be challenging.

Even with ideal backspacing, the outside of a 6" rim width wheel will be about even with the outside of the front fender lip and the tire sidewall will extend beyond the front fender lip.

The nominal rim width for 185 mm section width tires is typically 5.5". A 6" wide wheel is certainly acceptable for 185 mm section width tires, but if you are going to use your current 185/??-15 tires and buy new wheels, why not go with a 5.5" rim width and reduce the wheel / tire / fender issue?

Just a suggestion.
 

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
You find 'em, I'' try to buy 'em. I've had zero results finding 4 on 4 1/4 15 x 5.5 wheels. Shucks, I'd even consider 5 inchers.

Bill
 

Greggers

SAOCA Vice President
Platinum Level Sponsor
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