The wife and I have been watching a terrific British TV series, The Good Karma Hospital, and one of the characters drives a Series II. Fell instantly in love and have to have one. (And have since discovered the James Bond connection.) I have located one at a well-known classic car dealership not far from where I live but would like some guidance from those who really know the car as to what I should look for when I go drive it, which I will do this week. Is there anything in particular I should be on the look-out for, positive or negative? Many thanks!
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Enjoy.
Brand new buyer -- just fell in love with the car -- and wondering how to assess candidates
- Thread starter Steto
- Start date
I am sure there will be nearly as many opinions on this as there are members, but think most will agree that the most important thing to look for is rust. Mechanical repairs tend to be much easier and less expensive than body work. Floors on convertibles rust frequently - even I assume, in Southern California - and replacing the floors in a unibody Alpine is not a job for the fainthearted. Rust is also common in the rocker panels - which have three different layers to worry about - and lower fenders. Since it is at a dealer, you should also ask to see the car on a lift to inspect the frame (and the floors). That will tell you a lot.
Beyond the body, it is a 50+ year old car and will likely need regular care and feeding. If it starts easily, doesn't smoke, drives and stops straight, most things can be sorted over time. The engines are said to have leaked oil when new, so expect some of that no matter what. Despite the Lucas reputation, the electrical system on Alpines is pretty straight-forward and not a major problem, unless previous owners have hacked it up.
That is my top of mind list. I'm sure others will weigh in. Please keep us posted and good luck!
Beyond the body, it is a 50+ year old car and will likely need regular care and feeding. If it starts easily, doesn't smoke, drives and stops straight, most things can be sorted over time. The engines are said to have leaked oil when new, so expect some of that no matter what. Despite the Lucas reputation, the electrical system on Alpines is pretty straight-forward and not a major problem, unless previous owners have hacked it up.
That is my top of mind list. I'm sure others will weigh in. Please keep us posted and good luck!
alpine_64
Donation Time
If you are looking at a series II alpine they are quite different from the later series cars.
The practicality and parts availability is quite different between the early series cars (I/II) and the later Series 3-V.
On a series II does it have the original interior? Condition/fit of soft top ..does it have the contrails? Does it have a hardtop are all trims present?
Does it still have the original kingpin front end ( condition) or switched to later ball joint type?
Still have lever arm shocks...condition?
Engine and trans.. Early 3 maims engine and non syncro trans or later 1725 and full sync box?
Has it got overdrive?
Wire wheels..condition of splines and hubs.
Condition of fuel tank.
The practicality and parts availability is quite different between the early series cars (I/II) and the later Series 3-V.
On a series II does it have the original interior? Condition/fit of soft top ..does it have the contrails? Does it have a hardtop are all trims present?
Does it still have the original kingpin front end ( condition) or switched to later ball joint type?
Still have lever arm shocks...condition?
Engine and trans.. Early 3 maims engine and non syncro trans or later 1725 and full sync box?
Has it got overdrive?
Wire wheels..condition of splines and hubs.
Condition of fuel tank.
Thank you for this. Very helpful. When you mention the practicality and parts available for the Series II relative to later series, are you advising against buying the '62 model? Or just cautioning about what to expect? Something similar happened with my father many years ago -- in 1957 he saw Gary Cooper getting out of a brand new T-Bird in front of the Beverly Hills Hotel, and became possessed by the idea of owning one of those cars. He finally did, ten years later, but the car had about a 50% chance of getting him anywhere without breaking down, so he gave it up, and then he tried again a few years later, and both times the cars were nothing but insanely expensive nightmares to maintain. Is that what I'd be sailing into with this one?
alpine_64
Donation Time
An early series car is fine.. Just less refined and practical than later cars. You can upgrade early cars with later parts its just good to know what you want from the car.
Posting some photos would help us guide you.
The main thing on any sunbeam is make sure its not rusty and that if its had rust repairs that they have been done well.
Posting some photos would help us guide you.
The main thing on any sunbeam is make sure its not rusty and that if its had rust repairs that they have been done well.
Steto: You haven't said anything about your mechanical experience or interests, so please forgive me if this is insulting, but your story about your father reminds me of something I heard on Car Talk years ago. A listener called in who was thinking of buying a classic car he'd fallen in love with. Click and Clack's advice was something on the lines of: "You are not buying a car; you are buying a hobby." Alpine ownership is a wonderful hobby and and my SV still makes me smile every time I drive it, even 40+ years after I bought it. There are some in this club who still drive their Alpines every day and others, like Bill Blue, who has driven his car more than 100,000 miles over the last 10 years. But, I wouldn't recommend one to someone who doesn't either want to devote hobby time to the car or doesn't mind writing checks to a local mechanic.
Warren
Bronze Level Sponsor
First off there are guys more qualified than I to have a look . La Habra is out of my commute path. I do know a couple Tiger guys that are qualified to look at the car and more local than me.
I certainly would echo previous comments on buying a hobby and not a add fluids and drive car. If they made a How to keep your Sunbeam alive for the complete idiot. " substitute Volkswagen in title the John Muir book and famous how to book that spawned many DiY shade tree mechanics. Most guys could figure out the workings of the Sunbeam with some training or the book. Too late for auto shop or an adult education program at your local Vo Tech or public school...
To comment on Alpine_64's input is most cars have strayed from stock configuration by this point and can be a cobbled together mess or they can be well done with proper later parts. Put up some pictures or be happy with shots in the dark most everyone here has too many projects and would not consider another unless it was a steal within their AAA towing range. If it is a steal then there's a reason it's too good to be true.
I certainly would echo previous comments on buying a hobby and not a add fluids and drive car. If they made a How to keep your Sunbeam alive for the complete idiot. " substitute Volkswagen in title the John Muir book and famous how to book that spawned many DiY shade tree mechanics. Most guys could figure out the workings of the Sunbeam with some training or the book. Too late for auto shop or an adult education program at your local Vo Tech or public school...
To comment on Alpine_64's input is most cars have strayed from stock configuration by this point and can be a cobbled together mess or they can be well done with proper later parts. Put up some pictures or be happy with shots in the dark most everyone here has too many projects and would not consider another unless it was a steal within their AAA towing range. If it is a steal then there's a reason it's too good to be true.
I'd agree with practically everything above.
I took the liberty of checking out your newly-found love on the dealer website. Honestly, at nearly $9k, that not a bargain considering its appearance and unknowing what structural or drive repairs may have been done in the past. I understand your love for the car but suggest you bestill your heart until you're better informed. A dealer, especially one who doesn't know the nuances of these cars, isn't a fully reliable source of what make this car "excellent", as they claim.
Series Alpines are sometimes offered for sale by members of this very club. The seller will likely have valuable insight to the car's condition, roadworthiness and quality of prior repairs. Oftentimes, other members will chime in with personal knowledge of the car.
Mark ..... volvoguys
I took the liberty of checking out your newly-found love on the dealer website. Honestly, at nearly $9k, that not a bargain considering its appearance and unknowing what structural or drive repairs may have been done in the past. I understand your love for the car but suggest you bestill your heart until you're better informed. A dealer, especially one who doesn't know the nuances of these cars, isn't a fully reliable source of what make this car "excellent", as they claim.
Series Alpines are sometimes offered for sale by members of this very club. The seller will likely have valuable insight to the car's condition, roadworthiness and quality of prior repairs. Oftentimes, other members will chime in with personal knowledge of the car.
Mark ..... volvoguys
I'm glad you added that, Mark. I had meant to say it earlier. Dealers often don't know what they have or what they are worth. The For Sale section of the forum is definitely a good place to start. For example: http://forum.sunbeamalpine.org/index.php?threads/nice-series-ii-for-sale-price-reduced-8500.28413/
FWIW, I just took a look at the car online, too. The floors - at least what can be seen in the photos - and the trunk look solid, which is a great starting point. The seat upholstery isn't stock. That isn't good or bad, just an observation. The tach isn't stock either. The carb is also not stock, but is a single sidedraft which might be a very nice upgrade if it was done properly. (I'd like to know what manifold they used.) I also notice the map light sitting in the glove box. Putting it back shouldn't be a huge undertaking, so it is concerning that it hasn't been done. There may be a reason.
Looking at it reminds me of one other thing that hasn't been mentioned: Overdrive transmissions. They are a HUGE improvement if you intend to drive the car on the highway. This car doesn't appear to have one. They can easily be added, although they are increasingly hard to find and expensive. (I think the going rate for a good one - not including installation - is currently around $2,000-2,500, but someone here will correct me if that is off.) Alternatively, you can fit a more modern 5-speed, but that takes a bit more effort and the total cost is probably not much different.
All in all, it shows the kinds of owner-specific changes that many of our cars have acquired over the years. Again, not a bad thing, but it depends a lot on the previous owners' competence. It is definitely worth looking at.
p.s. I should also add something to my earlier comment about buying a hobby. I had next to no knowledge and experience when I bought my SV in 1978. But, I did have the desire to learn. I wish I'd had this club at the same time. The gang here can provide a master class in Alpine repair and maintenance!
Looking at it reminds me of one other thing that hasn't been mentioned: Overdrive transmissions. They are a HUGE improvement if you intend to drive the car on the highway. This car doesn't appear to have one. They can easily be added, although they are increasingly hard to find and expensive. (I think the going rate for a good one - not including installation - is currently around $2,000-2,500, but someone here will correct me if that is off.) Alternatively, you can fit a more modern 5-speed, but that takes a bit more effort and the total cost is probably not much different.
All in all, it shows the kinds of owner-specific changes that many of our cars have acquired over the years. Again, not a bad thing, but it depends a lot on the previous owners' competence. It is definitely worth looking at.
p.s. I should also add something to my earlier comment about buying a hobby. I had next to no knowledge and experience when I bought my SV in 1978. But, I did have the desire to learn. I wish I'd had this club at the same time. The gang here can provide a master class in Alpine repair and maintenance!
Thank you all for all this great advice and counsel. It is greatly appreciated. My automotive mechanical mastery extends to writing checks to mechanics -- which I got good at when I owned a '73 BMW 2002 a few years back -- though if I got the Alpine I think I would find a way to get better educated. Do any of you know anybody in the LA/Orange Country area whom I could have, for a fee of course if required, take a look at the car? This is the listing: https://philneweysportscars.com/vehicle/1962-sunbeam-alpine-series-ii/
SoCal'beaming
Donation Time
I also echo what's been stated above ... I have my own story as a first time buyer awhile back! .... I saw this one advertised on CL https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/ctd/d/la-habra-1962-sunbeam-alpine-series-ii/7163399556.html as well as another, later model one he has up. https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/ctd/d/la-habra-1966-sunbeam-alpine-series/7163398233.html
...... David
...... David
Ahh. Well, that changes everything. Just kidding. All of the previous advice still stands, although I will add one more thing: take a close look at the gas tank and make sure it isn't leaking anywhere. SII tanks are very hard to come by. Leaks can be repaired, but it can also be a big deal. Also check the top to see if the cantrails are still there. They are frequently lost, not reproduced and are exceedingly hard to find. (See http://forum.sunbeamalpine.org/index.php?threads/series-ii-cantrail-photos.28781/#post-204587) It isn't a deal-breaker, especially in SoCal, but might be something you can use as negotiating leverage if it comes to that.
I agree with Mark (Vologuys) on the pricing of this car. I have noticed that prices of these cars seem to be all over the place with many cars overpriced especially those from dealers. When checking the body also look for any signs of crash repair particularly to the front frame rails. If you plan on writing checks for maintaining the car the best buy would be a car that needs little work. I have two Alpines one I have owned for 30 years and one for 14 and I smile every time I drive them.
And just some more input re earlier (finned) series v later models.
As an S1 (finned) owner for some years now, my biggest criticism is the lack of boot space compared to the later models. Also non adjustable seat backs (recliner) and the later models do have an adjustable steering wheel, very much appreciated by the long legged brigade.
In all of this I do prefer the style of the finned cars, my pick would be the S3 simply because of the larger boot space.
As an S1 (finned) owner for some years now, my biggest criticism is the lack of boot space compared to the later models. Also non adjustable seat backs (recliner) and the later models do have an adjustable steering wheel, very much appreciated by the long legged brigade.
In all of this I do prefer the style of the finned cars, my pick would be the S3 simply because of the larger boot space.
alpine_64
Donation Time
The SII for sale needs a close inspection.
I notice the soft top hasnt been fully fitted.. The car has had a respray.. There is overspray on the hood latch and all the sunbeam letters on the front are gone.. Maybe a front kiss maybe owner preference...
Car really needs a proper inspection... Find a guy who works on sunbeams .. Especially bodywork to look.
The interior while custom is using the stock seats.. You could switch to the later series 3 onwards or aftermarket if you need adjustment.. Check the engine number to determine what series its from.
Dont rush to buy the first car you see.. Especially given the market... Good cars are out there.. You want one of those
I notice the soft top hasnt been fully fitted.. The car has had a respray.. There is overspray on the hood latch and all the sunbeam letters on the front are gone.. Maybe a front kiss maybe owner preference...
Car really needs a proper inspection... Find a guy who works on sunbeams .. Especially bodywork to look.
The interior while custom is using the stock seats.. You could switch to the later series 3 onwards or aftermarket if you need adjustment.. Check the engine number to determine what series its from.
Dont rush to buy the first car you see.. Especially given the market... Good cars are out there.. You want one of those