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I need a set: Hardened Woodruff Keys

Fergusonic

Fergusonic

Donation Time
Does anybody out there have a set of Hardened Woodruff Keys for my SV ? I have a new set from SS knowing that they are NOT hardened,,,, but I bought them so I would have the exact size to compare any hardened ones that I get.

Bradly
 
DanR

DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
Fergie, George Coleman said He has a couple....stay turned and He will respond.
 
DanR

DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
PROCRAFT said:
McMaster Carr 8620. Alloy keys.
Click to expand...
Thannks Joel for the lead on a good number and the source..... 1st time I saw that bit-o info....

First harden Keys I bought were from K Mathis. Then George Coleman provided some info too!

Thanks again,
 
Fergusonic

Fergusonic

Donation Time
A big shout out for Joel helping me this morning in the Hub Removal. We got one off but after much wrestling and heat we couldn't get the other one off. It's really on there tight. I will take it to Moser tomorrow morning to see what they can do. Thank you so much, Joel !!

Bradly
 
Fergusonic

Fergusonic

Donation Time
This morning I drove the 70 miles to Moser Engineering to have them remove the Hub that Joel and I couldn't get off. 8 minutes later, they brought it back to me..... it was separated..... and had not been heated. Some kind of specialized Press. And they charged me Zer0.
I told the guy that I was going to install Hardened Woodruff Keys and, much to my surprise, he said that the axle would break before that (stock) Woodruff Key would shear. And I thought Hmmmmmmm.
Meanwhile George is awaiting a new batch of Hardened Keys to be manufactured so that I may get a set.
McMaster-Carr website does not show any 8630 Woodruff Keys that I could see that are the same dimensions as the Alpine Woodruff Key.
Bradly
 
P

PROCRAFT

Donation Time
Fergusonic said:
This morning I drove the 70 miles to Moser Engineering to have them remove the Hub that Joel and I couldn't get off. 8 minutes later, they brought it back to me..... it was separated..... and had not been heated. Some kind of specialized Press. And they charged me Zer0.
I told the guy that I was going to install Hardened Woodruff Keys and, much to my surprise, he said that the axle would break before that (stock) Woodruff Key would shear. And I thought Hmmmmmmm.
Meanwhile George is awaiting a new batch of Hardened Keys to be manufactured so that I may get a set.
McMaster-Carr website does not show any 8630 Woodruff Keys that I could see that are the same dimensions as the Alpine Woodruff Key.
Bradly
Click to expand...
Hardened woodruff keys all in the eyes of the beholder, and by the way you could just get a piece of 4340 and make your own keys
 
260Alpine

260Alpine

Silver Level Sponsor
Softer keys don't shear, they round off and deform causing slop between the hub and axle. I used to Tig or Mig 3 or 4 tack welds on the old Scout axle and hub.
 
Fergusonic

Fergusonic

Donation Time
After web surfing for a couple hours with no luck; I finally found these:
Grade 8 Ring Bolts 3/8 x 24 : ARP-230-3001 from Summit Racing. Had to remove about 2 - 3 threads for correct length.
Grade 8 Flat Washers: Hillco HP8SAE380 from Summit Racing 3/8 x approx .050.
 
puff4

puff4

Platinum Level Sponsor
Thanks! That's saved me some time in researching.

I wonder, though, does one even need the washers? Originally the bolts had a washer, but that was only a tab-washer, used to prevent coming undone (which, as we all know, did just the opposite!). I would think that the bolt alone, with some LocTite blue to ensure it says put, should be sufficient to keep things in place.
 
Fergusonic

Fergusonic

Donation Time
If you don't use the washer then you have to remove more of the threads,,,, which leaves less threads to hold that torque. (I torqued mine to 37 ft # ) Red Locktite.
The ARP bolts mentioned are actually used for GM 8 and 10 bolt Ring gear !
 
puff4

puff4

Platinum Level Sponsor
Red Loctite only comes off with heat - lots of it (550 degrees F to be exact). If I ever do have to remove the bolts, I'd need to ruin the ring gear to do so. I'll rather go with blue and take the risk. The alternative would be to drill the bolts and safety-wire them, which I would certainly consider. I used to safety-wire everything that was critical on my race cars, so I have the tools, wire and talent.

Regarding the threads, yes, I'd be removing more threads off the end of the bolt, but the same amount of threads would be inside the gear and in contact with the bolt's threads, so I can't see how there's a difference in holding capacity.

Not sure how the washer adds clamping force though...? It spreads it out, yes, but I can't see any added force.
 
B

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
Why not lock washers along with the blue Loctite? The problem with the stock setup is not loosening of the bolts, but thinning of the tab washers, which by the way, are dead soft and do nothing but add thickness to the stack.

Bill
 
Fergusonic

Fergusonic

Donation Time
"Ferg, 37 ft lbs is about right for Grade 5, I'd go 45 ft lbs for Grade 8-3/8" x 24."

I'm leaving them as-is..... if it gernades, it'll be 8" time.
 
Gumby

Gumby

Donation Time
Fergusonic said:
This morning I drove the 70 miles to Moser Engineering to have them remove the Hub that Joel and I couldn't get off. 8 minutes later, they brought it back to me..... it was separated..... and had not been heated. Some kind of specialized Press. And they charged me Zer0.
I told the guy that I was going to install Hardened Woodruff Keys and, much to my surprise, he said that the axle would break before that (stock) Woodruff Key would shear. And I thought Hmmmmmmm.
Meanwhile George is awaiting a new batch of Hardened Keys to be manufactured so that I may get a set.
McMaster-Carr website does not show any 8630 Woodruff Keys that I could see that are the same dimensions as the Alpine Woodruff Key.
Bradly
Click to expand...

No, the stock woodruff keys will indeed shear off and not break the axles....Trust me. I'm one of those guys who did that. Back in 1976 in a stock Alpine series IV...OK I had the Zeinith Down Drafts, but stock otherwise... So I was 16 in my high school parking lot with my buddy in the car, did a reverse burnout, and then was going to burn out in 1st gear too. Tried, but heard a horrible noise. rolled it up again the curb, got out (still idling in first gear), and the right rear wheel axle nut was spinning, but not the wheel. Uh Oh! managed to get it home on the flat roads. Managed to get the nut off, and the hub slid right off. 2 key pieces, and the destroyed hub and axle. Axles and hubs were far easier to obtain 45 years ago, so it was basically an easy fix, and never did another burnout.

Now 45 years later, I just bought another Series IV (64 this time), and will be changing the keys to hardened ones, AND looking to replace the rear axle with something better, maybe a postal jeep rear end with a better highway gear ratio....and one piece axles.
 
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