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ALL HOOKED up But....

DanR

DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
What could be the problem?

The clutch linkage from pedal to release bearing is connected.

The Hyd Slave Cyl has been adjusted for the correct throw, it has been bled, and tested out of the car for the release of the clutch disc.

By this I mean, the engine will freely turn and the transmission gears are in neutral. But when installed in the car, the clutch does not release.

Seems as if the Slave does not have power to pull the lever.
 
Last edited:
R

RootesRacer

Donation Time
Not that it doesnt have enough power, but perhaps it doesnt have enough stroke.

Be sure you dont have a return spring on your slave since this will make the slave return beyond its clutch engagement point and require far more master cyl stroke to fully disengage the clutch.

Other possibilities are not having the correct clutch pedestal for the the clutch and flywheel if your setup runs the stock running gear.
 
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C

Chuck Ingram

Donation Time
Stupid question but is the slave on the proper side of the bell housing.
If not then it will not operate as it should.
 
DanR

DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
Chuck, Definitely not a stupid question!

There are times that this happens.

However in this case it is correctly installed with the mounting to the front and the "Pull" connected to the Mutt II release arm.

NOTE: PK just posted in the Stock Alpine Section this comment/question:
I'm doing a V-6 conversion; re-built engine and T-5; Wilwood Master and Slave Cylinder. Problem: the clutch pedal stays hard to push, but the clutch doesn't release. Anyone have similar issues?

pk
 
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Barry

Barry

Diamond Level Sponsor
Dan,

Like many Ford 2.8 V6 installations, you have a mixed hydraulic and mechanical system. Depressing the clutch pedal moves the master cylinder which moves the slave cylinder which then moves the mechanical pivot arm that goes into the bellhousing and moves the throwout bearing.

When you depress the clutch pedal, does the slave cylinder move the mechanical arm 3/4" - 1"? If so, the problem is inside the bellhousing. If not, you most likely have a problem on the hydraulic side (unless something is locked up inside the bellhousing and cannot be moved).

Don't forget the possibility that the clutch disc is stuck to the flywheel or pressure plate. Another possibility is that the clutch disc is slightly too large in diameter and the outer edge of the disc is pinched between the flywheel and clutch cover. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt, etc.
 
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weaselkeeper

weaselkeeper

Silver Level Sponsor
Also have to ask...Is the clutch disk installed with the correct side facing the flywheel? If not, it will never release. The engine will still rotate when in neutral. Yes, I learned this the hard way....on a kenworth. The lesson still applies to a sunbeam.
 
DanR

DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
I'M MOST CERTAIN THE DISC IS IN CORRECTLY, but I NEED TO VERIFY:confused:

hAD THE ENGINE AND t5 CONNECTED SO MANY TIMES i'M ONLY GOING TO TEAR DOWN AND FIND OUT....
 
tony perrett

tony perrett

Gold Level Sponsor
If my Rapier is unused for more than a few weeks the clutch plates will bond to the flywheel. In order to release it I get the engine up to temperature, depress the clutch pedal and hold the engine speed at about 3,000 RPM for 15 - 20 seconds. Clutches are seldom balanced and the centrifugal force is sufficient to release it. Occasionally, higher engine speed is necessary but it does work.
 
J

junkman

Gold Level Sponsor
clutch

if the disc is stuck to the flywheel, get the car outside start it in 1st gear when the engine starts push in the clutch pedal and jerk the car with the throttle that always works for me.
 
DanR

DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
The Latest....

With the slave cylinder attached, it moves about 1/4". With it disconnected, it moves around 1".

It seems as if the problem is inside the bell-housing. I'm estimating it takes 40-50 lbs. of pressure, using a two-foot pipe, attached to the operating arm, to depress the clutch springs..

I just spoke with tech support at Phoenix Friction, about the clutch.
After listening to what I told him, they say it is definitely a hydraulics problem. With 29 years experience, and that what I described He says definitely not a clutch problem.

I asked about the pressure needed to activate the clutch lever arm; He says 40-45 lbs is normal; He quoted one vehicle that needed 100 lbs. He says that is Definitely not the problem.

Curious as to how many others are using these same combinations for clutch slave setup?

Any comments by you guys??

Trying to get Wilwood on the phone now...

DanR
 
C

Chuck Ingram

Donation Time
Dan
Before pulling it all,apart why not remount the slave cylinder 1 inch closer
What slave are you using. If a Wildwood you have lots of adjustment
Oh I see it is a Wilwood.
Possible defect but not likely
 
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DanR

DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
Chuck, Closer to what the front of the engine?

I had hit on that idea a bit ago of taking slack from the front of the Slave and possibly adding a bit more to the rear (Pull area). To check the travel after adjustment will be next.

It is a New Wilwood.

Thanks Chuck and all,

DanR
 
bulldurham

bulldurham

Platinum Level Sponsor
Dan, I am on my second Wilwood. The first leaked but was my fault I think because of alignment. Both have been hard to activate and I am sure it takes more than 40 to 45 lb. to move the pedal. One thought I have had is that I have bent the fingers on the pressure plate[was warned to use a stop] but everything seems to operate correctly and I have a good clutch response.
I will not know the real problem til I pull the engine and that will not be before the clutch fails.
 
T

Tom H

Platinum Level Sponsor
Dan said, (earlier):

However in this case it is correctly installed with the mounting to the front and the "Pull" connected to the Mutt II release arm.
Click to expand...

Maybe there is something about the clutch for the Mutt that I don't understand, as I only have experience with Alpine stock set ups. But I do not understand "Pull". Does a Mutt II clutch slave "Pull" rather than push on the throwout lever? On an Alpine the slave needs to be mounted on the back side of the bellhousing, so that its normal full travel moves the lever far enough. Seems yours should be the same.

You say the clutch piston moves 1" without any load, but only 1/4" with the clutch load on it. It seems that identifies the problem. The clutch piston should be able to move the full 1", regardless of whether the clutch requires 45 or 100 lbs. Hydraulic fluid is not compressible. Do you have air in the system? Bleed screw at top like it should be?

Tom
 
B

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
I had a Wilwood that failed on initial installation. The piston ring had stuck to the cylinder. When it unstuck, it destroyed the ring and fluid would rush past it, back into the reservoir. Sounds like you have a similar situation. Can you look into the reservoir while the pedal is pushed? Look for fluid swirling when the pedal is depressed.

Bill
 
C

Chuck Ingram

Donation Time
Tom H

The V6 fords originally used a cable.
On the V6 conversions you need a pulling slave cylinder
I did this in 1979 and passed it on to all
I,used the Neal's slave but now everyone uses the Wilwood
In fact we use the pulling slave in both cars.
Never had a problem in over 100,000 miles when the 62 was the V6
 
DanR

DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
Just noticed on the cap of the Clutch Master "USE ONLY DOT 3"

Did'nt pay much attention to detail on this one. Lots of opinions as to whether or not the fluid matters!

Any idea what effect using DOT 5 will have vs Dot 3 ?
 
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