'And the Fun Begins!'

[Mike Armstrong]

The new intake manifold gasket fits like a glove. Strangely, both the previous poor fitting gasket and this new one are 'both' for the same 85 Ford Ranger 2.8L.

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/felpro-intake-manifold-gasket-set-ms-94673/5991021-P

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/felpro-intake-manifold-gasket-set-ms-91886/5188385-P

You can see in the photos that the new one is cut slightly different and has cork along the ends. The old gasket came with an Intake Manifold Set MS 94673. The new gasket I ordered separately MS 91886. They also different in that the old one is stamped 91886-1, whereas the new one is stamped 91886 R5. Perhaps the 91886-1 is for a different 2.8L?

http://s1362.photobucket.com/user/EighteensTen7/slideshow/Manifold Gaskets

 

[Mike Armstrong]

And the saga continues......

After meeting up with a couple of our Darkside members and their fine conversions at Cars & Coffee I was inspired to, once again, give my project another chance to come alive.

I was meticulous, if not surgical in the way I replaced and installed the intake manifold gasket so there would be no question of it possibly being a factor if there was a problem later on. Did the same when I installed the valve cover gaskets. Tested the thermostat before installing it. Switched to a 7lb radiator cap (from 13b), I wanted to make sure it could easily vent. Installed the repaired and freshly painted radiator.

I also took the time to check off some other things on the list. I installed a manual choke. Tested the heater for leaks and got it all hooked up. Utilized a 1/4" and a 5/8" carb spacer to replace the stock aluminum tower with a really nice fitting lower profile base for the carb. Ground and shaved off the base of a nice looking aftermarket air cleaner to allow it to sit level (due to the stock 2.8 intake manifold's carb seat being sloped forward when the engine is level).

Also, last time it ran I pulled the plugs and noticed all of them on the passenger side were much darker than the three on the drivers side. Checked the carb mixture screws and noticed that the the drivers side was about 1 3/4 turns out but the passenger side was 4 3/4 turns out!? No wonder the plugs on that side were dark. Set both sides to 1 1/2 turns out.

Cleaned up some electrical connections and tightened some bolts here and there. Added some fresh engine paint here and there. Filled it with fresh coolant and checked for leaks (none). Added fresh fuel cliked on the ignition and checked for fuel leaks (electric fuel pump). All looks great.

http://s1362.photobucket.com/user/EighteensTen7/slideshow/Coolant

Tried starting it a few times. Noticed that there was a little coolant dripping from the passengers side header where it attaches to the exhaust pipe, but I had seen that last time it ran so maybe it's just left over(?) Sprayed in some starter fluid and it started to briefly run! Nice. But, tried that several more times and nothing. Gave it some time in case I somehow flooded it but after many attempts it would not kick over again.

That's when I noticed the coolant leaking, now from 'both' header ends, at least a half cups worth!! (remember, it hadn't even got to the point of running yet, just turning over and a very brief run). Pulled plugs from both sides of the engine and they were wet with coolant!

I now suspect either the head gaskets are shot or the engine block/heads are cracked! Maybe the mechanic at the radiator shop was right. When I told him according to my laser thermometer it hadn't got over 202 degrees and he saw how bowed out from pressure the tanks on the radiator had become he said the cooling system had been pressurized probably from exhaust gases. (i.e. a cracked head or leaking gasket(s). Maybe with that scenario that's how coolant was making it's was into the intake manifold?

Anyhow, I'm slightly more than completely disappointed. When you buy a dirty, decades old engine off the back of a junky flatbed in the middle of tin buck two, you take the chance on it being a dud. I cleaned it all up, installed the HO Oil Pump, Alloy timing gear, HO Water Pump, new gaskets and painted it all up. But that all might have been lipstick on a pig. When my wife asked if it was bad I told her, if some guy was trying to sell me this car, went to start it and coolant came out of the header ends I would say, forget it.

After a few days of thinking over options I've decided to assume it's blown head gaskets and I'll try to fix it. I suspected a leaking passenger side head gasket early on when it was running when I had noticed a little coolant dripping from the passenger side exhaust flange. The last time it was running when I went to shut it down it dieseled like crazy, bucking wildly before I could get it to stop. So much so that I was worried it could have been violent enough to bend a connecting rod or brake something (at least I know the engine mounts are solid ). Perhaps if the head gaskets are original and weak it might well have been enough to blow out the other side too (used to only drip coolant from one side).

I'll tear it all down again and take some pics. At that point I'll be 'hoping' to see 'just' bad head gaskets.

 

[gordonra]

Dang Mike,

Sorry to hear about the troubles. Hopefully it won't be so bad, but it is disappointing.

Let me know if I can help in any way.

Rich

 

[Mike Armstrong]

Dang Mike,

Sorry to hear about the troubles. Hopefully it won't be so bad, but it is disappointing.

Let me know if I can help in any way.

Rich

Thank you buddy.

Sure 'looked' good for awhile there anyway. If it's only the head gaskets I can manage. Let's hope it's not worse than that.

 

[Mike Armstrong]

Rich brought to my attention that another member had problems with his intake manifold gasket causing coolant to leak into a cylinder. He had to remove the cork used on the ends of the gasket and instead use layers of gasket material along with sealant and it fixed the problem.

The first intake gasket I installed after cleaning up the engine did not fit quit right, the holes in the gasket for the intake manifold bolts did not line up correctly and I had to elongate a couple of them to get it to fit ok. That might have contributed to the coolant leakage into the intake manifold and perhaps leakage of coolant onto a cylinder evidenced by the dripping of coolant from one of the exhausts.

The second intake manifold gasket I installed fit like a glove and had the cork ends, which I left in place but still used gasket sealer. After that installation is when ‘both’ exhausts had coolant leaking out and all the plugs were soaked with coolant after just turning the engine over several times.

Could it be that both installations I did were faulty? I thought I was being very careful but, it could be I suppose. I would have bet money on my work being bulletproof. Sounds like our other members engine leaking coolant into a cylinder was directly caused by the cork ends of the same gasket I used this last time. It was pretty dramatic going from a little coolant inside the intake manifold to seeing coolant leaking from both exhausts and having all the plugs soaked in coolant just from turning the engine over. I would have bet something more catastrophic than a leaking gasket was at fault.

Could just the cork ends of the manifold gasket leaking present in such a dramatic way?

I'd sure like to think that I don't have to go thru the 'fun' of pulling the heads to replace the head gaskets if it's not needed.

 

[V6 JOSE]

Hi Mike,

I have posted my method to intake manifold gasket installation before, but I´ll tell you again. I take out the middle portion of the gasket and use just the two sides. I then put about 1/8" of silicone sealer (the orange stuff) on each end of the engine. I make sure to lap a bit onto the side gaskets in the corners. I then torque the manifold lower half and you´re done. I have never had an intake manifold leak water on me.

The middle portion sometimes makes the holes for the bolts not line up well, so I get rid of it.

Jose

p.s. I would take a compression test to make sure it doesn´t have a blown head gasket.

 

[Mike Armstrong]

Hi Mike,

I have posted my method to intake manifold gasket installation before, but I´ll tell you again. I take out the middle portion of the gasket and use just the two sides. I then put about 1/8" of silicone sealer (the orange stuff) on each end of the engine. I make sure to lap a bit onto the side gaskets in the corners. I then torque the manifold lower half and you´re done. I have never had an intake manifold leak water on me.

The middle portion sometimes makes the holes for the bolts not line up well, so I get rid of it.

Jose

p.s. I would take a compression test to make sure it doesn´t have a blown head gasket.

Thanks Jose.

What compression range would be acceptable?

 

[V6 JOSE]

Hi Mike,

I can´t remember exactly what the compression number should be, but what you are looking for is a noticible difference between cylinders. The variance should be no more than about 5 lbs. to indicate a healthy engine.

Since you bought it without knowing the condition of it was, I would have considered it as a buildable core, rather than a runner. You may have gotten lucky though. Let me know what you find. OK?

Jose

 

[Mike Armstrong]

Ok, thanks.

That's true about the chance you take when you buy an engine. I took with a grain of salt what the seller told me about the engine previously running ok before he removed it from the vehicle to use in another project, ya never know

But, I have to say the PO wasn't totally lying. It did, at first, start up and run like a top even with coolant in the intake manifold though the dieseling on shut down was progressively starting to get worse. But after the radiator blew it was done running.

 

[Mike Armstrong]

Spring is in the air, car shows and classic cruise nights are around the corner, so it's time to take a look inside my broken V6.

I did a couple of things first. A compression test and a 'glove test' where you secure a rubber on the radiator fill and plug it's vent then crank the engine to see if the glove fills with air, not a good sign. If it does you can remove and replace one spark plug at a time and isolate which cylinder(s) is causing the problem. Below are the results.

Cylinder
#1- 125lbs
#2- 98lbs, positive Glove Test
#3- 120lbs
#4- 60lbs, positive Glove Test
#5- 95lbs, positive Glove Test
#6- 120lbs

Tear down was easy, maybe too easy. In the 2.8 engine rebuild videos I watched beforehand it looked like the mechanics really had to put their weight into getting the head bolts to break loose. In contrast, the head bolts on this engine backed out relatively easy. Makes me think maybe it was recently rebuilt and/or the head bolts were'nt torqued down properly.

There was coolant pooled in several cylinders (none in the intake manifold as before) and discoloration/corrosion on the head gasket between numbers 1&2 and 4&5 cylinders. No 'obvious' cracks on the heads the can see. Could have simply been a case of blown head gaskets. That would seem to account for the initial signs of exhaust gases being forced into the cooling system and blowing up the improperly non-vented radiator and the coolant running out of the the exhaust.

I'll have to have the heads Magnafluxed to be sure.

Take a look at the pics. Are the markings on the pistons stock?

http://s1362.photobucket.com/user/EighteensTen7/library/Head Gasket

 

[Gitnrusty]

coolant leak

Hi Mike.....
I noticed in the photos that your heads have not had the coolant passage modification done (that is the two holes drilled between the adjacent exhaust valves on each head).

That doesn't address your current problem but worth considering when you put good heads back on.
Sounds like the heads were loose or warped? Hope its a simple fix.

 

[Mike Armstrong]

Hi Mike.....
I noticed in the photos that your heads have not had the coolant passage modification done (that is the two holes drilled between the adjacent exhaust valves on each head).

That doesn't address your current problem but worth considering when you put good heads back on.
Sounds like the heads were loose or warped? Hope its a simple fix.

Thanks Chuck, I'll keep that modification in mind.

 

[Mike Armstrong]

Brought the heads to a local recommended machine shop known for building race engines. Before cleaning them up the mechanic said one head probably looks ok but, he pointed out a probable crack on the other head, but he's going to get them cleaned and Magnafluxed to be sure, we'll see.

 

[Mike Armstrong]

Aaaarg! Make that 2 cracked heads!!

Got some decision making time to think of now.

 

[DanR]

Mike, Don't junk the heads just yet!

Sometimes a "GOOD Machine Shop can repair them. Just depends on were and how much of a crack (s) there are.

DanR

 

[Mike Armstrong]

Hi Dan.

I actually haven't seen the dye results, just a phone call. But tomorrow I'll go over and check them out. To be honest, I'm not surprised their cracked and it's what I would have told someone else I was suspecting if it was their car.

But thanks, I'll see what the shop owner says.

 

[DanR]

Mike My first 2.8 V6 engine had both heads and one cylinder cracked.

THe gent I bought it from gave me another engine, It had one cracked head.

My Machine guy was able to fix one of the three that were cracked. Shortly afterwards I happen by an old engine rebuild shop that a High School Buddy now runs that has been in the family more than sixty years. When asking about my need of some Mutt II heads He came up with a Brand new set of '74 heads that were never on a car. Man what luck some guys can have. I bought them for a little of nothing! Also, found some other goodies for my Mutt II engines. He gave me an engine that was supposedly had a spun cam journal bearing. It was complete with all new pistons rods, etc. Took it the my machine shop and they checked it out for me and to my great surprise the cam journals were not damaged. Blessing never cease!

DanR

 

[Mike Armstrong]

Got a look at both heads. There's a single crack in one head and two cracks in the other. Again, not too surprised after seeing coolant from both exhausts while only turning the engine over

Anyhoo, there are options.

1) Find another set of heads from another 2.8 and roll the dice again. I have a decent engine with at least (tested with two cracked heads) 120lbs of compression and new components (Alloy Timing Gear, High Volume Oil Pump, High Volume Water Pump, Carburator, Starter, Fuel Pump).
2) I've been told there are re-castings of 2.8 heads that come with a complete valve train for $300-$400 a piece. (Which at that point, being all shiny and new, might as well get 2.9 valves and be ported and polished. An additional expense of coarse).
3) There are Ford 2.8 'crate' engines that come complete and ready to run for around $1500. The engine builder at the machine shop says you have to be careful going that route because of cheap components and over bored cylinders.
4) Buy a running/ready to run 2.8 from another 'project for sale' (there once was a Craigslist add for a V6 Sunbeam project that had a completely rebuilt, 2.9 valve, Offy 4 Barrell 2.8 available).

Any others?

 

[pcmenten]

I have a Bronco II 2.8 but I haven't pulled it apart yet. I wonder if those types of heads would be suitable. I don't see why not.

I have 75 Mustang II heads. I drilled and tapped the AIR ports in the exhaust ports, and I then ran a threaded bolt into that hole. I had the exhaust flange ground flat. I'm thinking the same sort of thing can be done on Bronco heads, but I just don't know what they look like so I can't be sure.

BTW, I suspect that those 'new casting 2.8 heads' are in fact 2.9 heads - not compatible. The 2.9 engine were prone to cracking heads and for a time there was a market for aftermarket replacement heads.

And, yes, I'd be wary of the low-cost rebuilders.

 

[DanR]

Got a look at both heads. There's a single crack in one head and two cracks in the other. Again, not too surprised after seeing coolant from both exhausts while only turning the engine over

Anyhoo, there are options.

1) Find another set of heads from another 2.8 and roll the dice again. I have a decent engine with at least (tested with two cracked heads) 120lbs of compression and new components (Alloy Timing Gear, High Volume Oil Pump, High Volume Water Pump, Carburator, Starter, Fuel Pump).
_____________________________________________

Mike, I believe based upon what you said in your option 1. I'd got that route provided you can find some heads cheap enough. (Get an agreement with the seller to the effect that they must check out good!). Go the 2.9 valves and do the water passage modifications like "Gitnrusty" suggested. I have been through one of the new crate engine buys. Too many little things that could have been done much better. Cleaning of the oil pan, Correct bolts, proper torque, etc., etc. Lack of a balance job which cost me another $200.00. My reference is the the Green1 project I bought a year ago.

DanR