Ride Stiffness

lord_rootes · Mar 5, 2015

Hi folks,
I've noticed in both of the Alpines I have owned that they have quite a hard unforgiving ride quality. In other words, not a softer riding car like my Rapier or my MG (sorry probably a dirty word here).
I'm wondering if the stiffness in the ride quality is something that is common to all Alpines or did I just buy two that need fixing up in that regard? If so, would I need to have the springs re tempered or reset somehow?
Thanks, any help is greatly appreciated.
Alan

Nickodell · Mar 5, 2015

Sports cars of the era were generally harder riding than sedans/saloons; it was something one accepted, the same way as - in some makes - plastic slot-in windows instead of wind-up ones, and more noise. I had a Mk. IIIA Rapier in England, the last car we owned over there (sold it the day before we emigrated), and it was comfortable in that respect, as one would expect from a "sports saloon," and quieter.

We had an MG TD before the Rapier, and that would jolt the fillings out of the teeth of a clothing store dummy. Our MGB over here was a bit softer than the Sunbeam, but WTH.

You might want to check the dampers* first, in case DPO fitted extra-stiff ones.

*I can't get used to the idea of "shock absorbers." The springs absorb shock, the dampers control spring compression and rebound rates.

Bill Blue · Mar 5, 2015

I found that switching to 1968 Camaro gas filled shocks front and rear softened the ride. But not to the point that you think you are riding in a 1953 Buick. You know, the ones that would continue bouncing all the way through a red light. I got the premium Monroe shocks. I think you will find it rather difficult to find dampers in your local Auto Zone.

It makes a huge difference to old farts on long trips and the youngens don't seem to mind. But the ride quality is very much an age thing. When I bought my first Alpine I was 21 and the car rode fine. Maybe just a little stiff, but not bad. Dad was 51 and said it rode like a log wagon. Now at 72, I realize he was right all along.

Bill

bashby · Mar 5, 2015

I am 56 and I replaced the leaf springs and front coils, replaced the dampers on my SV was stunned that the ride was even worse (not to mention it did not improve the rear ride height). I fixed the problem with coil overs but then it is not original.

alpine_64 · Mar 5, 2015

An alpine should be a softer ride stick than an mga or mgb, they springs should be somewhat supple and the original fluid shocks were softish, maybe the car has had poly bushes installed? Is the cars suspension rebuilt?

lord_rootes · Mar 6, 2015

alpine_64 said:
An alpine should be a softer ride stick than an mga or mgb, they springs should be somewhat supple and the original fluid shocks were softish, maybe the car has had poly bushes installed? Is the cars suspension rebuilt?

Hi guys,
Thanks for your replies. I'm pretty sure the car's suspension is not rebuilt as everything else is very original. I think I might look at new shocks (or dampers as you say) first before I go any further. I wouldn't be surprised that they are original or at least very old. I haven't started stripping the car for painting yet so the ride quality is going to be addressed a little further on in the process I suspect. I was just interested in other people's experience in this area.
Maybe, as suggested, it's just my age catching up to me (58 this year). I probably would have found it fine when I was younger. Actually a friend of mine drove both my old Series II, which rode quite hard, and my MGB GT which is quite soft riding, and he much preferred the Alpine's firmer ride.
Thanks again,
Alan

PROCRAFT · Mar 6, 2015

Ride

Springs hold the car up. Shocks dampen the ride, all this contributes to the
quality of the ride and control, proper selection is the key.

crs · Mar 6, 2015

IMHO, the drivers impression of the ride of a sports car is partly dependent upon the driver and what he/she is accustomed to experiencing.
I have owned a TR3A, and two Alpines (SII and SIV) and have driven others folks MG As, Sprites, Jag XK120 and a 370Z as well as several factory hot rods. Again, IMHO, my Alpines rode better than any of those older cars(the Jag was a beast), but not the 370Z (no surprise there).

Our current SIV still rides fine for a 50 year old two seat roadster in town and on the highway. Years back, I did install adjustable shocks and tuned them for a fairly stiff, flat ride. It is not the car for family touring on the interstate or tollway or in crowded stop and go big city traffic, or on bad roads (rough, potholes, dirt county roads, corduroy surfaces, etc. I have a 4wd Tahoe for those roads and applications.
But on a sunny day like today after the last winter storm thawed, it is a joy to putt about the area.

V6 JOSE · Mar 6, 2015

I donÂ´t know about you guys, but my Alpines rode very comfortably on any surface. Of course it rode a bit stiff, but it cornered great and wasnÂ´t unbearable.Of course I had the later seats to sit on, which are more comfortable than the early versions. I drove my Alpines across country all the time, in fact, I drove mine from Seattle to L.A. then to Nashville and to Charleston and back and enjoued it. I did this twice with my brother and he said he enjoyed it too.

One reason that the Alpines corner as well as they do, is because of the stiffer suspension, and I loved curvy roads when I had mine.

Jose

chazza · Mar 6, 2015

Check that the leaf springs are not dry or rusted together; if they are that will make a very harsh ride. They should be lubricated with grease, or a dry lubricant.

I have a S1 with bronze suspension bushes and every bump in the road is noticeable, but not uncomfortably so and she corners like a go-kart!.

Like Jose I have after-market seats, which are very comfortable and take out any harshness.

Cheers Charlie

Bill Blue · Mar 6, 2015

Times two about the rear springs.

My best guess in the rear springs have over 125,000 miles on them and they had a groove worn across the flat where the two leafs meet. I eased the groove and ground a slight radius on the edge of the spring that had worn the groove. Then reassembled using plastic spring liners.

At this point in time, I do not know how much this changed the ride quality. I do know that when giving the car the shock bounce test, the rear moves at least twice as far as it did before the overhaul. It really was stiff. Maybe I'll get the new car ride!

The temps are supposed to get up to almost 60

this next week, might be able to get the 'Pine out for a trial run. Depends more on the road salt than temperature. That means a big rain which is not in the forecast. But that could change at any time.

Bill

lord_rootes · Mar 6, 2015

Bill Blue said:
Times two about the rear springs.

My best guess in the rear springs have over 125,000 miles on them and they had a groove worn across the flat where the two leafs meet. I eased the groove and ground a slight radius on the edge of the spring that had worn the groove. Then reassembled using plastic spring liners.

At this point in time, I do not know how much this changed the ride quality. I do know that when giving the car the shock bounce test, the rear moves at least twice as far as it did before the overhaul. It really was stiff. Maybe I'll get the new car ride!

The temps are supposed to get up to almost 60 this next week, might be able to get the 'Pine out for a trial run. Depends more on the road salt than temperature. That means a big rain which is not in the forecast. But that could change at any time.

Bill

As I recall the springs don't look very rusty but again, once I start taking the car apart I'll get under and take a really good look.
The car actually rides quite well except for when it hits a pothole or a bad bump. Then it really shakes the heck out of everything and you notice the stiffness of the ride more in that it doesn't seem to cushion the jolt much. But as has been said that may just be a characteristic of Alpines, I know both of mine rode similarly.
Thanks,
Alan

Bill Blue · Mar 6, 2015

Alan, time to amend my post. I left out one word, which changes things a lot. I meant to say my springs have over 125,000 miles on them. The entire post was about my springs, not what I think your springs might be like.

My springs were lightly rusted, but I think the worn out buttons and grooves were the larger problem.

Bill

lord_rootes · Mar 7, 2015

Hi Bill,
I wondered how you knew how much mileage my car had. I figured it was an educated guess and you're not far off. My speedo (which I'm pretty sure is original as it is the automatic transmission specified one) shows just over 31,000 miles. Judging by the condition of many parts I'd say that's probably 131,000.
Thanks,

RootesRooter · Mar 8, 2015

...then it really shakes the heck out of everything

Maybe your perception of the ride quality is affected by various loose parts. For example, worn window channels can make an Alpine clatter like the next big bump will be its last.

Have you ever driven an Alpine that's missing the shifter boot? It can make everything about the car, including ride quality, feel primitive and tractor-like.

Worn front end parts can rattle and squeak too.

Adding modern sound insulation can bring general road noise down closer to your Rapier and make it seem more civilized.

Jay Laifman · Mar 8, 2015

I have had four Alpines and a Tiger. I have driven quite a few MGs over the years - as honestly, my dad used to race TDs and I so originally wanted an MG before we got the Alpine. I have to say that I always thought the Alpines were a smoother, more supple ride than the MGs. I would never ever describe any of them to be hard at all. And, I recall reading a lot of period articles of them when new saying the Alpine was softer than the MGs. The "hairdresser's car" don't you know.

I don't think springs and leafs get firmer with age. So, I'm going to go with your shock absorbers, worn out rubber bushings up front, and the idea that you've got things rattling. FWIW, I installed new bushings up front and about 5 years later they were gone! Literally disintegrated. My replacements have lasted much longer.

lord_rootes · Mar 8, 2015

RootesRooter said:
...then it really shakes the heck out of everything

Maybe your perception of the ride quality is affected by various loose parts. For example, worn window channels can make an Alpine clatter like the next big bump will be its last.

Have you ever driven an Alpine that's missing the shifter boot? It can make everything about the car, including ride quality, feel primitive and tractor-like.

Worn front end parts can rattle and squeak too.

Adding modern sound insulation can bring general road noise down closer to your Rapier and make it seem more civilized.

Good point, there is a fair bit of rattling going on which I will address in the resto. I have put sound insulation in my Rapier and a Hillman I used to have and it did make a big difference as you say.

lord_rootes · Mar 8, 2015

Jay Laifman said:
I have had four Alpines and a Tiger. I have driven quite a few MGs over the years - as honestly, my dad used to race TDs and I so originally wanted an MG before we got the Alpine. I have to say that I always thought the Alpines were a smoother, more supple ride than the MGs. I would never ever describe any of them to be hard at all. And, I recall reading a lot of period articles of them when new saying the Alpine was softer than the MGs. The "hairdresser's car" don't you know.

I don't think springs and leafs get firmer with age. So, I'm going to go with your shock absorbers, worn out rubber bushings up front, and the idea that you've got things rattling. FWIW, I installed new bushings up front and about 5 years later they were gone! Literally disintegrated. My replacements have lasted much longer.

Thanks Jay. I think I will look at the shocks first and replace them. I haven't looked at any front end bushings but the car did go through an inspection when I imported it into Canada and they only found one ball joint needed replacing so I assume everything else is within acceptable wear limits. But again, I will have to address that as I go along.
Thanks

Jay Laifman · Mar 8, 2015

The arrow points to the bushing that I found had no rubber left.

Bill Blue · Mar 8, 2015

Jay, I don't think anybody is saying springs get stiff with old age. As they wear against each, a groove wears across the upper spring where the end of the lower spring rides. This "locks" the springs together, making them very resistant to movement.

Also, to say the Alpine has a smooth ride because it is not as rough as the MG's is like saying I'm rich because I make more money than my neighbors.

Bill

Ride Stiffness

Attachments