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no power

mint 61

Donation Time
I'm back, this time with no power. Engine starts and idles pretty well, it just doesn't go anywhere very well. As soon as you let off the clutch, it bogs down and struggles. I get a cough from the carbs every once and a while, and a slow, rough acceleration. Strap yourselves in, because this is kind of long winded. My apologies. I know it sounds like a timing issue, but it was kind of all of the sudden.

Here's what I've done already to no avail:

Assumed it was in the ignition, replaced points and condenser with Pertronix,
rotor is less than a year old, maybe 30 miles on it.

Checked timing, it was pretty far advanced, retarded it to what I think was about 6 degrees BTDC, no change. It acts the same way in both positions, and everywhere in between, but it does idle a little smoother when advanced. I have suspicions that the PO upgraded the cam because I found one in the box of parts. Maybe this is why it likes the advance?

One thing though, I did get a shock from the dizzy cap when adjusting. I have a new dizzy cap and plug wires on order. The old one appears to be fine (other than the shock) and the plug wires are less than a year old.

Replaced spark plugs. The old ones were a little carbonized from my hot start/flooding issues I had before. No help.

Adjusted carb floats on the dual Zeniths. Just bent the tab a little (very little) to lower the float level because I was getting flooding problems upon starting before. I'm getting the feeling that it was an ignition problem, not a fuel problem. (I'm hoping the Pertronix remedies that) I'm thinking of pulling the tops off the carbs again and checking everything out. My fear is that I've done this about 3 times and that maybe the gasket isn't sealing well after all the on and off. I'm yet to check fuel pressure.

Adjusted mix screws on carbs, they're both about 1 1/2 turns out right now. No real change in power issues.

Vacuum leak?
Clogged Exhaust?

Any input would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.:confused:







Any input would be much appreciated.
 

Tom H

Platinum Level Sponsor
what's the condition of the vacuum line and connectors at the carb and at teh dist?

Getting a shock form the dist cap suggests either a leak path (carbonized?) around it, or maybe bad connections where the wires enter into the cap- either the coil wire or the plug wires.

Tom
 

mint 61

Donation Time
what's the condition of the vacuum line and connectors at the carb and at teh dist?

Getting a shock form the dist cap suggests either a leak path (carbonized?) around it, or maybe bad connections where the wires enter into the cap- either the coil wire or the plug wires.

Tom
Vacuum connections look fine, not dry rotted or anything. Dist cap: contacts are clean connections appear to be solid. Newer plug wires too. I'm wondering if it could be a bad ground, at the battery, because those older battery connections are a little loose on the battery terminals?
 

Series3Scott

Co-Founder/Past President
Platinum Level Sponsor
Are you running with an inline fuel filter? What does the fuel bowl at the pump show? Any black flakes swimming around in the fuel?
 

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
To follow up on Tom's post. The fact you got shocked indicates there is a problem in the distributor cap. Carbon tracking, microcrack, who knows. I would not touch a thing until a new cap is installed.

A fellow can go crazy if he's not careful.

Bill
 

RootesRooter

Donation Time
If you were running Strombergs, I'd suggest a pinhole in one of the diaphragms.

I don't think you told us how you finally got it started again, which might hold the key. Or does it still go dead without warning?
 
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Tom H

Platinum Level Sponsor
Not likely a bad ground connection at battery. A bad connection there would show up as very poor starter cranking ability
 

Asm109

Donation Time
Verify that both vacuum and centrifugal advance mechanisms are working as they should.

I had a car where the centrifugal advance stuck at full advance once. Driveability on that car was really poor espcecially after I retarded the timing back to the proper specs. Took me a while to find the roote cause on that one.
 

mint 61

Donation Time
To follow up on Tom's post. The fact you got shocked indicates there is a problem in the distributor cap. Carbon tracking, microcrack, who knows. I would not touch a thing until a new cap is installed.

A fellow can go crazy if he's not careful.

Bill

Yeah, it only takes doing that twice(slow learner) to know to turn it off before touching. Should have new cap by Friday.
 

mint 61

Donation Time
Verify that both vacuum and centrifugal advance mechanisms are working as they should.

I had a car where the centrifugal advance stuck at full advance once. Driveability on that car was really poor espcecially after I retarded the timing back to the proper specs. Took me a while to find the roote cause on that one.

I'll have to check that out, it is definitely advancing one way or the other, I can see it in the timing light. "Roote cause" Good one.:D
 

mint 61

Donation Time
Are you running with an inline fuel filter? What does the fuel bowl at the pump show? Any black flakes swimming around in the fuel?

No fuel filter, Series II bone stock, acid washed and redcoated the tank, blew out the lines, pump bowl is clean as a whistle, carb bowls are clean.
 

mint 61

Donation Time
If you were running Strombergs, I'd suggest a pinhole in one of the diaphragms.

I don't think you told us how you finally got it started again, which might hold the key. Or does it still go dead without warning?

I never exactly figured out if I fixed it or not. I was able to get it started after it sat for a day, that's when this new power issue started. It hasn't ran right since.

Here's the timeline:

You may remember the clutch slave issue I had. Once it was fixed, I test drove it, ran great.

Adjusted the timing to what I think was 6 degrees BTDC, ran great.

Stopped at my brothers house on test drive, it died, couldn't get it started.

Adjusted float tabs(very slightly), checked spark plugs for spark. Still wouldn't start.

Next Day. Got it started, ran like crap, has ever since.

Yesterday, got Pertronix installed, put timing back where it was originally assuming that may be the problem. Ran like crap.

And here we are today. Starts and idles fine, until you put any load on it, runs like crap.
 

Jay Laifman

Donation Time
I think Scott's point is closest. I think you are not getting full flow of fuel. What are you using for a fuel pump? I think you are getting enough gas to idle fine, but when you start to pull out, you are not getting enough gas to keep up.
 

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
Yeah, it only takes doing that twice(slow learner) to know to turn it off before touching. Should have new cap by Friday.

By not touching a thing, I mean everything, not just the cap. Your description of events says ignition problem. Since the cap is "leaky", it is defective. That may or may not be the problem, but I would not mess with anything until it is changed.

If a new cap does not improve things, next up is the coil. They can fail in a manner that will allow the engine to start and idle pretty good. Any attempt to extract any power leads nowhere. Missing, bucking, anything but deliver power. I once saw an Allis-Chalmers tractor that would start and idle fine. It would hardly move out of its tracks, even in low gear. Bad coil.

Bill
 

65beam

Donation Time
power

here is the way to get it going. 937-252-3317. call him and see if they can check it out. 40 + years in the sunbeam business. located in Dayton.
 

RootesRooter

Donation Time
here is the way to get it going. 937-252-3317. call him and see if they can check it out. 40 + years in the sunbeam business. located in Dayton.


I agree. The original problem was never resolved; now we're going in circles, grasping at straws in the dark. Time for a pro to give you a hands-on diagnosis, even if you have to tow the thing to Dayton.
 

65beam

Donation Time
power

some times it does take a fresh mind to see a problem. we set a fresh rebuilt 1725 engine in the series 4 after the restoration. we had trouble getting it started and when it did start we could not find why it ran terrible. it turned out that the new set of push rods had one rod that was shorter than the others. another set of eyes found it real quick and problem solved. this was an odd thing but he found it.
 

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
Not until he looks at the coil. You might say I am "a new mind" as I had forgotten all of the problems he has experienced. Just reviewed the threads, he has never mentioned the coil, not even when he installed the Pertronix.

Bill
 

mint 61

Donation Time
BINGO! Got home to find my new dist cap had arrived, installed it, still no luck. New plug wires came with it, no luck(except for not shocking me anymore). Pulled the top off the rear carb, bowl was bone dry. I'm an idiot. Last time I pulled the float, I installed the float needle mount backwards in its slot. Fixed, runs like a top for now. I won't be sure if the hot start problem is fixed until it happens (or doesn't happen) again. But I'm hopeful it was in the old ignition.

BTW I knew the coil was working by the good jolt that I got 3 different times.lol

Thanks for your help everyone! I would still like to get in touch with that guy in Dayton, the for the heads up. Hopefully you won't hear anything from me for a while because I'll be out cruising.
 
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65beam

Donation Time
power

if you're going to be driving it, there are a few shows coming up. 05/24 @ the transportation museum on Webster street in Dayton, 07/13 @ harbin park in Fairfield, 08/02 @ eastwood metro park in Dayton.
 
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