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Edward Scissorhands under the dash.

sunbeam74

sunbeam74

Silver Level Sponsor
Not sure who did the fine modifications to the wiring harness on my car but man is it cut-up. Most of it won't be used since I am switching to Stewart-Warner gauges but it really is a mess.

I wouldn't mind finding a good condition harness between the alternator and regulator. Anyone? I suppose I could make it up, too.

Steve
 
mxp01

mxp01

Platinum Level Sponsor
Are you still use a Generator. If so this harness is just easiest to make with a quick trip to a autostore.
 
sunbeam74

sunbeam74

Silver Level Sponsor
Also, what is the warning light simulator and where was it located?

Does it send the signal to your light by the key to let you know you aren't generating "X" current should your alternator fail?

(I had planed on running an Alternator in the SV.... yes, it would be fairly easy to mockup the wires)

Steve
 
Jim E

Jim E

Donation Time
I have a couple harness laying around can look see it I have the Alter/Reg section but they usually get baked so if I have one may be no good.
 
T

Tom H

Platinum Level Sponsor
Steve,

You say:
"(I had planned on running an Alternator in the SV..." ,

which I take to mean that you have not yet installed an alternator. Is that correct?

If so maybe you should consider using a modern Alt with a built in Regulator. That would simplify your cabling a bunch. The SV Alt requires a Controller (regulator), a Warning Light Simulator (a relay that turns on a dash light if the Alt does not put out enough current), plus an Alternator Control Relay. That's three extra pieces of Lucas that can go bad. If you use something like the Datsun (Mitsubishi) 14231 you only need the alternator, everything else is built in or not needed. Much simpler to wire.

Tom H
 
T

Tom H

Platinum Level Sponsor
Steve,

No. What I (and several others) have used is this Nissan Alt:
http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductList.aspx?PartType=11&PTSet=A&SearchFor=Alternator

I like its easy availability - local Advance Auto had it in stock,

But it does take a little messing with the bracket. At least when installed on a SV. I had to slightly "move" the holes where the bracket bolts to the block. But you probably need a new bracket anyhow for a SII.

But the one Jan suggested (and you noted) is certainly a good choice also. Either one needs no external regulator or other parts.

Tom
 
bkasl

bkasl

Donation Time
What model # is this Nissan Alt? Your message did not state.


UOTE=Tom H;43308]Steve,

No. What I (and several others) have used is this Nissan Alt:
http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductList.aspx?PartType=11&PTSet=A&SearchFor=Alternator

I like its easy availability - local Advance Auto had it in stock,

But it does take a little messing with the bracket. At least when installed on a SV. I had to slightly "move" the holes where the bracket bolts to the block. But you probably need a new bracket anyhow for a SII.

But the one Jan suggested (and you noted) is certainly a good choice also. Either one needs no external regulator or other parts.

Tom[/QUOTE]
 
T

Tom H

Platinum Level Sponsor
bkasl, Sorry my link didn't work like I thought it would. Turns out it depends on what vehicle you have stored in a "cookie" on the Advance website. I found that out when I clicked on the link from my home computer and it pulled up an Alternator for my Chrysler 300.

But I DID mention the model number in my previous msg: Nissan / Mitsubishi
# 14231.

Steve, yes that's the one. And I feel the same way about my Lucas Alt collection!

Tom
 
gordonra

gordonra

Donation Time
I just did the Nissan Alternator conversion on my SV and it really wasn't so bad.

The Alternator is a #14231. Mine was a Hitachi, but I believe ther are other manufacturers, and AutoZone does stock them n some stores. Most of the Auto parts houses I checked with can have it in a day or two. Application is for a 1980 Nissan 720 pickup.

First remove the negative battery lead.

Remove the old regulator, warning light simulator, field isolation relay, Alternator and the wiring to the Alternater...

Remove the Lucas alternator, and the lower bracket.

Slot the hole in the lower bracket so that it will fit toward the back of the engine 3/8" further than stock.

Mount the new Alternator, a belt about an inch shorter than the stock, some new wires...

B terminal goes to the main battery wire at the Fuse box.
EDIT:
S terminal is the sense lead, (connect to the switched side of the fuse box).
L terminal goes to the warning light.

That's about it...

The alternator is smaller than the Lucas, has a capacity of 35-38 amps (more than adequate for almost everything), readily avalable and internal regulation....
 
T

Tom H

Platinum Level Sponsor
Good description from Gordon, but I think he's wrong on the "S" lead.

See the diagram at this link:
http://www.team.net/www/rootes/sunbeam/alpine/mk1-5/techtips/altconv.html

This is what I used to install the 14231 in mine

It shows an R terminal not S. I don't think the actual Alt has any letters there so it could be either, and the author of the article calls it the Sense terminal. But regardless of terminology, that terminal should connect to the Ignition switch for connection to the battery in the ON position. I guess you could connect it to the B terminal - but it would then always be ON. Not sure what effect that would have. (probably drains the battery when sitting overnight).

Also note that this schematic has the ammeter wired wrong (or at least different from the factory). As drawn it only monitors current to and from the Alternator instead of to and from the battery. There are several posts by me and others about how to wire the Ammeter properly.

Tom H
 
sunbeam74

sunbeam74

Silver Level Sponsor
Sounds good. I had planed on simply putting the Lucas alt and reg back in since I have many good ones lying around, however, I am missing the warning simulator. (not essential but would be nice)

The bottom line is the Nissan alternator can be found very cheap and makes sense just to switch over.

Steve
 
gordonra

gordonra

Donation Time
Tom H said:
Good description from Gordon, but I think he's wrong on the "S" lead.
Click to expand...

You're correct Tom.

I made a mistake in my description. I put the S lead on the switched side of the fuse box, but I had read somewhere that you could connect it to the B+ terminal. See the photo for the terminals....
 
T

Tom H

Platinum Level Sponsor
Thanks, Rich,

I am sure it will charge properly if you wire the S directly to the B+. Electrically it is the same as wired to the switch with the switch ON. What I am not sure about is what happens when the car is turned OFF but the S is still connected to the B. It means the Alt is still ON. But I'm not sure what the net effect is. My guess is that it will put a slight drain on the battery while stored. I might poke at this a bit this spring when I get back to reassembling my SV engine and installing it.

Your picture shows the B terminal, but not the others. Are they labeled L and S ?

regards, Tom
 
gordonra

gordonra

Donation Time
Look closer at the upper left corner... the S and L terminals are in the recess for a plug. You may be looking at the studs instead. I used 1/4" female spade connectors because I didn't have the mating plug. They are labled S and L in the photo.
 
T

Tom H

Platinum Level Sponsor
Duh! Of course it's there. And I was even looking for that T shaped connector! But I was not looking for a recessed area. I had thought it was a protruding connector. I saw the I assembly studs and knew they were not the connectors, but I did not see the S and L !

I also used 1/4' female spade connectors.

By the way, when I reassemble my engine I plan to use some kind of anchor to hold the main B+ cable steady to the Alternator. In driving 4000 miles with the cable just connected to the B+ it broke at the connector from the vibration.

Thanks again,

Tom
 
sunbby

sunbby

Past SAOCA President
Donation Time
Tom H said:
Thanks, Rich,

I am sure it will charge properly if you wire the S directly to the B+. Electrically it is the same as wired to the switch with the switch ON. What I am not sure about is what happens when the car is turned OFF but the S is still connected to the B. It means the Alt is still ON. But I'm not sure what the net effect is. My guess is that it will put a slight drain on the battery while stored. I might poke at this a bit this spring when I get back to reassembling my SV engine and installing it.

Your picture shows the B terminal, but not the others. Are they labeled L and S ?

regards, Tom
Click to expand...

Yes you can connect the sense "S" terminal directly to the B+; it will not drain the battery. If you have a too small charging wire (from B+ to the "battery node" - usually at the starter solenoid) your car will run at something less than the nominal 14.1V the alternator is trying to put out. If you have a small charging wire and connect the sense wire to that node on the starter solenoid the alternator will give your system 14.1. Basically the alternator tries to keep whatever the sense terminal is connected to 14.1 volts. Check out the link to madelectrical.com for a rant about that.

The L should go to a switched voltage source to energize the alternator field coil when the engine is not running. This allows the alternator to start charging as soon as the engine starts. Usually you can leave this connection open and the alternator will revert to a "self-exciting" mode, but it will not turn on until you give it sufficient revs. Plus you won't have the idiot light. If left on while not running, this connection will drain the battery.

Here are some links for your enjoyment. The 1st has some pretty good theory.

http://www.alternatorparts.com/understanding_alternators.htm
http://www.alternatorparts.com/FAQ.htm#how%20to%20wire
http://www.madelectrical.com/electricaltech/onewire-threewire.shtml
 
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