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Ex Avery Harrington for auction
- Thread starter alpine_64
- Start date
Warren
Bronze Level Sponsor
Yes
To quote a prominent Tiger guy about generally speaking " A nice collection of parts."
Of course he was speaking about a Lego brick car that was all Tiger except for one wing. Never mind the bricks were different color as they were from different cars.
So this nice collection of parts has a few bits that were raced and are vintage.
It's funny when I was a party to an perfect reproduction AC air cleaner housing some complained that we were doing a bad thing. It's funny how the goal post in some guy's minds can be so easily moved by the lode stone of their wallet or their own particular desires. Yea, I know a goal post is made out of aluminum these days but pretend just like you do when looking at this Harringtone clone with moved VIN tags like that's perfectly cool thing to do in the U.S.
To quote a prominent Tiger guy about generally speaking " A nice collection of parts."
Of course he was speaking about a Lego brick car that was all Tiger except for one wing. Never mind the bricks were different color as they were from different cars.
So this nice collection of parts has a few bits that were raced and are vintage.
It's funny when I was a party to an perfect reproduction AC air cleaner housing some complained that we were doing a bad thing. It's funny how the goal post in some guy's minds can be so easily moved by the lode stone of their wallet or their own particular desires. Yea, I know a goal post is made out of aluminum these days but pretend just like you do when looking at this Harringtone clone with moved VIN tags like that's perfectly cool thing to do in the U.S.
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jdoclogan
Platinum Level Sponsor
The coveted Holy Grail of baseball cards is the American Tobacco Company’s T206 card of Honus Wagner. This card was pulled from circulation after 200 had made it to market because Wagner didn’t want to support tobacco use for his young fans. A PSA 8 version (highest surviving grade) of the card traded hands with hockey star Wayne Gretzky and others. The card was discovered to have trimmed edges, which would greatly reduce its value, but that didn’t stop Arizona Diamondbacks owner Ken Kendricks to purchase the card in a 2007 auction for $2.8 million.
This was the highest price ever paid for a baseball card. By trimming the edges the card initially achieved a higher rating and thus a greater value. Yes, buyer beware of fraudulent, unscrupulous, and devious beings as well as those that support such practices. It is a matter of owner integrity that concentrates the divine "Holy Grail" for any collectable. Sure there are those that may step up and purchase an item with knowledge of its short comings. They also may see a way to increase the value with a stroke of the razor and an insidious state of morality.
I was in direct contact with Bob Avery's daughter in 2012 while this car was for sale. I had the opportunity to purchase it and was about to close the deal. However, after intense viewing of the photos provided I came to realized the VIN plate had been removed from the original body and reattached to the faux Sebring/Nart race car with the confirming firewall VIN stamp already removed or the donor body was produced after February 1962. Bob filled his vision of making a replica/recreation of the original. Many, including his family, unknowingly thought they had the "Holy Grail" of a Sunbeam that raced under the umbrella of NART Racing at Sebring. I stepped back and watched a buyer proceed to purchase, improve, and acquire the monetary driven approval of Goodwood and FIA for his precious investment. The buyer continued to claim the car as "original." Maybe from ignorance of what they had or from greed as to what they may get for it. How fitting to know it will be on the auction block during my birth-day September the 7th. I will now gain the knowledge of what some Professional Baseball Team Owner type might pay for a trimmed edged/fully altered "Holy Grail."
This was the highest price ever paid for a baseball card. By trimming the edges the card initially achieved a higher rating and thus a greater value. Yes, buyer beware of fraudulent, unscrupulous, and devious beings as well as those that support such practices. It is a matter of owner integrity that concentrates the divine "Holy Grail" for any collectable. Sure there are those that may step up and purchase an item with knowledge of its short comings. They also may see a way to increase the value with a stroke of the razor and an insidious state of morality.
I was in direct contact with Bob Avery's daughter in 2012 while this car was for sale. I had the opportunity to purchase it and was about to close the deal. However, after intense viewing of the photos provided I came to realized the VIN plate had been removed from the original body and reattached to the faux Sebring/Nart race car with the confirming firewall VIN stamp already removed or the donor body was produced after February 1962. Bob filled his vision of making a replica/recreation of the original. Many, including his family, unknowingly thought they had the "Holy Grail" of a Sunbeam that raced under the umbrella of NART Racing at Sebring. I stepped back and watched a buyer proceed to purchase, improve, and acquire the monetary driven approval of Goodwood and FIA for his precious investment. The buyer continued to claim the car as "original." Maybe from ignorance of what they had or from greed as to what they may get for it. How fitting to know it will be on the auction block during my birth-day September the 7th. I will now gain the knowledge of what some Professional Baseball Team Owner type might pay for a trimmed edged/fully altered "Holy Grail."
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Sorry guys, did not realize this was mostly about FRAUD. While I have no issue with rebodying a Harrington, the owner/builder has a responsibility to fess up to what has been done to the car, especially while selling/showing. And incredibly so if claiming the car to be historically significant.
Bill
Bill
jdoclogan
Platinum Level Sponsor
Bill, I appreciate your comments. I had a clear understanding of the Avery situation while discussing the matter with Avery's executor as I removed myself as the buyer. She was worthy of an award for stepping back from the presentation on Ebay and moving forward with the current owners offer. It is the present owner that has made errors in his choices about the true status of the Avery rebuild.
I understand what it means to restore an automobile to originality like the approach I took with my Harrington Le Mans. I also understand the alterations that some deem necessary because of improved performance, comfort or just plain old "it looks better to their eyes." Like the one-off Lyrad project I have been working on for three years. It had some serious safety issues with the original suspension underneath a significant amount of body/engine modifications (Lotus 19 front section with a Jaguar engine and a rear section with no quarter window) all starting with a Series I Sunbeam. Thus, I have made major alterations to the Lyrad Mark I GT. Complete installation of a Miata suspension with a Torsen rear end, rear body modifications, along with the addition of 275GTB Ferrari type vents. The original builder, Dr Darryl Townsend, who sadly passed away last April, shared his view that I should call it a Lyrad Mark II GT. I agree and will tell the great stories about Townsend and share the February/March 1978 Lyrad articles he wrote for The EJAG News Magazine (thanks to 65sunbeam for notifying me about these articles). Now that I'm the current owner/re-builder I have the duty and, indeed, a morale obligation to tell the truth about the Lyrad.
I understand what it means to restore an automobile to originality like the approach I took with my Harrington Le Mans. I also understand the alterations that some deem necessary because of improved performance, comfort or just plain old "it looks better to their eyes." Like the one-off Lyrad project I have been working on for three years. It had some serious safety issues with the original suspension underneath a significant amount of body/engine modifications (Lotus 19 front section with a Jaguar engine and a rear section with no quarter window) all starting with a Series I Sunbeam. Thus, I have made major alterations to the Lyrad Mark I GT. Complete installation of a Miata suspension with a Torsen rear end, rear body modifications, along with the addition of 275GTB Ferrari type vents. The original builder, Dr Darryl Townsend, who sadly passed away last April, shared his view that I should call it a Lyrad Mark II GT. I agree and will tell the great stories about Townsend and share the February/March 1978 Lyrad articles he wrote for The EJAG News Magazine (thanks to 65sunbeam for notifying me about these articles). Now that I'm the current owner/re-builder I have the duty and, indeed, a morale obligation to tell the truth about the Lyrad.
Attachments
alpine_64
Donation Time
I don't think that's correct, jerry is aware several people looked at purchasing the car, several of those who saw the photos of the work undertaken then began to realise what had been done and that the integrity of its linage had basically been erased.
I remember discussing the implications with the people who advised me of its availability before it was listed on either eBay or BAT. My inclination was to do the works to get it correct closer to the spec of the Sebring racer and acknowledge it as a reconstruction using parts of the original car.
I also said I could see someone doing the above works but concealing it's rebody ( and trying to remove evidence of it) then trying to get it published in some prominent historic mags and enter it in events like goodwood or Monterey depending where it ended up before playing up the NART association and trying to flip it for big $ ..... Funny how things play out isn't it....
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65beam
Donation Time
auction
It never ceases to amaze me how folks 10,000 miles away know what is going on in my neighborhood ! The difference is that I sit in the lawn chair and talk to folks instead of relying on the internet. Remember that Ohio is the " center of the sunbeam universe". NEXTTTTTTTT
It never ceases to amaze me how folks 10,000 miles away know what is going on in my neighborhood ! The difference is that I sit in the lawn chair and talk to folks instead of relying on the internet. Remember that Ohio is the " center of the sunbeam universe". NEXTTTTTTTT
alpine_64
Donation Time
We all keep forgetting you are the centre of the universe ... I can see how a flatworlder would find people outside their little world disturbing ...
Ironically there are some very knowledgeable sunbeam people in your neck of the woods , yet you have told so many of them how wrong they are despite them basing their knowledge on research and empirical evidence.
That lawn chair must be very strong to hold up so much knowledge.
Just think about how great the internet has been for you Bob.. it allows you to troll so many people beyond those who you constantly harass locally.
NEXTTTTTTTT ! is that how you do it BHB?
DanR
Diamond Level Sponsor
OK GUys It is time to break it off.
As usual a simple use of words and application of one's knowledge and beliefs has accelerated to the point of no return...
I think it best to discontinue the next (?) comments unless constructive to the "SUBJECT of the THREAD..."
DanR
As usual a simple use of words and application of one's knowledge and beliefs has accelerated to the point of no return...
I think it best to discontinue the next (?) comments unless constructive to the "SUBJECT of the THREAD..."
DanR
Harrington Jan
Donation Time
Jerry
Sorry we missed your great day. Hope you survived. Happy Birthday!
BTW. #55 was sold yesterday for just £97,500
Sorry we missed your great day. Hope you survived. Happy Birthday!
BTW. #55 was sold yesterday for just £97,500
alpine_64
Donation Time
World record price for a non racing, non factory Harrington. Possibly the only fraudulent sunbeam that may have sold higher was the Alger that represented itself as the works tiger rally car ahp 295b
sunbeam74
Silver Level Sponsor
I really wish this Harrington had been represented better in the description. Technically, If you follow the trend in naming it isn't a "replica" but typically the term, "recreation" is used. Along with "from some of the original parts". Which in this case, the top, the glass, and some other Harrington specific bits.
It is great it pulled so much money. Far more than I expected.
It is great it pulled so much money. Far more than I expected.
Harrington Jan
Donation Time
Everyone is free to have his/hers own opinion. I think somebody has been fooled to pay that price for the true car, which it is NOT. What to call it is a minor thing, replica, fake, phony or re-manufactured it's all the same thing, it's not the true car. The truth will reach the buyer someday. If so can he/she blame Sotherby's for not telling the truth?
sunbeam74
Silver Level Sponsor
I tend to agree with you there Jan. I think the former owner is responsible for the presentation of the car. I am sure the auction houses have a clause stating that. So who can you blame? Probably the former owner.
The only benefit of the Harrington I can see is it is accepted at special vintage race events. It's is hard to say how much of a $ premium that privilege offers.
However, I wouldn't have considered the car knowing what I know.
The only benefit of the Harrington I can see is it is accepted at special vintage race events. It's is hard to say how much of a $ premium that privilege offers.
However, I wouldn't have considered the car knowing what I know.
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