twautomotive
Silver Level Sponsor
Item # 190782446726
Does anyone know how this car came to be? I thought all Harrington "A's" were RHD.
Tom
Does anyone know how this car came to be? I thought all Harrington "A's" were RHD.
Tom
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Bob Avery Harrington For Sale on Ebay
- Thread starter twautomotive
- Start date
alpine_64
Donation Time
Tom, well documented history.. car was bought new by Theodolli (Alitalia exec IIRC) and he shipped it across from the UK special order to the states. I thin kthe history of the car is on the harrington website run by Jan I
Harrington Jan
Donation Time
Yes, there is a short story and some pics of the car, but the man to ask is Steve Silverstein. David Kellog has written about it in Alpine Marque #3
twautomotive
Silver Level Sponsor
Just Reread Alpine Marque #3
Here's a paragraph form the article-
Beginning with a ‘stock’ —albeit left drive— Harrington, the Theodoli car,
was upgraded for racing by the late Tom Frye and Stan Hallinan of D & H
Motors in Bow, New Hampshire. Prepa-ra--tion for endurance racing
included addition of a trunk-mounted 40 gallon fuel tank, a Monza-style
gas cap mounted atop the right rear fin, a roll bar, and special seats. A
full race cam was added, with twin Web-er 40 DCOE car-bure-tors for
power.
Here's a paragraph form the article-
Beginning with a ‘stock’ —albeit left drive— Harrington, the Theodoli car,
was upgraded for racing by the late Tom Frye and Stan Hallinan of D & H
Motors in Bow, New Hampshire. Prepa-ra--tion for endurance racing
included addition of a trunk-mounted 40 gallon fuel tank, a Monza-style
gas cap mounted atop the right rear fin, a roll bar, and special seats. A
full race cam was added, with twin Web-er 40 DCOE car-bure-tors for
power.
sunbeam74
Silver Level Sponsor
Technically it was a Series II GT Freddie Barrett and Filippo Theodoli raced in 1961. When I started researching Alpines I think everyone just assumed the Harrington ran all three years since no pictures of the 1961 Alpine had been located.
BTW< Few people realize Theodoli was involved with Magnum Marine. The family owned this boat company for many years.
http://www.magnummarine.com/aboutMagnum/FilippoNewEra.html
(Ok, before anyone else, besides Scott
, jumps on me regarding the "GT" note above... the Alpine ran in the GT class with the Hardtop. So, even though Rootes didn't make GT's in the Series II format it was listed as a GT on the entry sheet.)
BTW< Few people realize Theodoli was involved with Magnum Marine. The family owned this boat company for many years.
http://www.magnummarine.com/aboutMagnum/FilippoNewEra.html
(Ok, before anyone else, besides Scott
, jumps on me regarding the "GT" note above... the Alpine ran in the GT class with the Hardtop. So, even though Rootes didn't make GT's in the Series II format it was listed as a GT on the entry sheet.)
sunbeam74
Silver Level Sponsor
Over the years a good bit more information regarding D+H, Theodoli, Barrett and Crawford/Kneeland has surfaced.
In fact the other day I went to Long Island with Dick Waite, was on the pit crew for 1963, and we had a really good discussion regarding the 1963 event.
Sadly, Stan Hallinan, of D+H, passed away earlier in the year. Stan still had the 46 Ford that towed the Harrington to Sebring in 1963 - I think it still had the pit passes in the window too last time I looked.
Steve
In fact the other day I went to Long Island with Dick Waite, was on the pit crew for 1963, and we had a really good discussion regarding the 1963 event.
Sadly, Stan Hallinan, of D+H, passed away earlier in the year. Stan still had the 46 Ford that towed the Harrington to Sebring in 1963 - I think it still had the pit passes in the window too last time I looked.
Steve
jdoclogan
Platinum Level Sponsor
Let me preface with a statement about the seller. I believe they are trying to provide the most accurate information as they possibly can.
One of the crucial "facts" and economically impacting "facts" surrounding this sale is whether the current body is original or not. The replica plate has the VIN as 9106097 and the body number plate as 6108. These numbers match well enough to suggest an early June, 1961 production date. This production date would be supportive to the rich history of the Theodoli Harrington. To rely on this "fact" one must except that the replica VIN plate is accurate and that the body number plate is mated with the original body it came with.
Comparing the photo provided on the current Avery Harrington sale to my original Harrington Le Mans with a manufacture date in late June of 1961 as well as my original Series II manufacture date September, 1960 I found a serious problem with the Avery Harrington number plate. The number plate was attached with non-factory rivets. This strongly suggests that Avery removed the number plate from the original body and riveted it onto a donor body. As well as the obvious use of a replica VIN plate to ballpark a match with the body number.
I asked the seller if they would find and read the VIN off the passenger firewall. This would clear up a major issue, whether it had been re-bodied. The seller could not locate the VIN stamped on the body. Most likely it is either covered with paint or it was removed in the body's preparation for painting. Either way it is the only conclusive way of knowing what is truth on this matter.
One of the crucial "facts" and economically impacting "facts" surrounding this sale is whether the current body is original or not. The replica plate has the VIN as 9106097 and the body number plate as 6108. These numbers match well enough to suggest an early June, 1961 production date. This production date would be supportive to the rich history of the Theodoli Harrington. To rely on this "fact" one must except that the replica VIN plate is accurate and that the body number plate is mated with the original body it came with.
Comparing the photo provided on the current Avery Harrington sale to my original Harrington Le Mans with a manufacture date in late June of 1961 as well as my original Series II manufacture date September, 1960 I found a serious problem with the Avery Harrington number plate. The number plate was attached with non-factory rivets. This strongly suggests that Avery removed the number plate from the original body and riveted it onto a donor body. As well as the obvious use of a replica VIN plate to ballpark a match with the body number.
I asked the seller if they would find and read the VIN off the passenger firewall. This would clear up a major issue, whether it had been re-bodied. The seller could not locate the VIN stamped on the body. Most likely it is either covered with paint or it was removed in the body's preparation for painting. Either way it is the only conclusive way of knowing what is truth on this matter.
Attachments
puff4
Platinum Level Sponsor
Some photos that may help:
Odd sets of numbers struck into the *back* of this plate. They would appear to end in '0097'...
alpine_64
Donation Time
When i saw the post by john this morning I didnt realise the listing had been updated, and had added the body issue. Now that it has I will point out some things that myself and some others discussed a little while back in regards to this car.
I believe the car has been rebodied. If you look back at the history of the car it had accident damage on the front guard near the headlight, had severe rust issues and originally was an early bodied SII Alpine base.
In the restoration photos that show the car upside down and being stripped for paint the body shows no rust/repair where the pictures of it being used as a daily driver show heavy rust. There is no sign of accident damage on the stripped shell and there are several details on the car that point to it being a later body SII.
Kevins post of the photos of the overstruck numbers are interesting.. the block one may have been done in period for registration issues after the car was retured to stret configuratio (it no longer used the race motor IIRC)
The car is a great car, well restored and quite beautiful IMHO. Even at 40K it would be a good buy. As for its lineage.. i would say that it is now A recreation of the sebring harrington using some original parts fro the car.
I believe the car has been rebodied. If you look back at the history of the car it had accident damage on the front guard near the headlight, had severe rust issues and originally was an early bodied SII Alpine base.
In the restoration photos that show the car upside down and being stripped for paint the body shows no rust/repair where the pictures of it being used as a daily driver show heavy rust. There is no sign of accident damage on the stripped shell and there are several details on the car that point to it being a later body SII.
Kevins post of the photos of the overstruck numbers are interesting.. the block one may have been done in period for registration issues after the car was retured to stret configuratio (it no longer used the race motor IIRC)
The car is a great car, well restored and quite beautiful IMHO. Even at 40K it would be a good buy. As for its lineage.. i would say that it is now A recreation of the sebring harrington using some original parts fro the car.
sunbeam74
Silver Level Sponsor
It is always hard to say a car isn't what it is thought to be. However, the photos posted by the seller suggest the car was re-bodied. Between the discrepancies of the late SII body and an earlier SII body and lack of rust and repair in areas during restoration there is a body of evidence to call originality into question.
Personally, I still like it alot…. It is a neat Harrington and Bob’s ownership is just part of the story. Buy it because it is a Harrington and a great car to drive.
Personally, I still like it alot…. It is a neat Harrington and Bob’s ownership is just part of the story. Buy it because it is a Harrington and a great car to drive.
65beam
Donation Time
ebay
for those owners that have never done a full, bare metal restoration of a sunbeam it would be difficult to understand why some would rebody a car. it also would be difficult for some of you that have never seen this car to understand the quality of this car. i've set in the driver seat of this car and for some reason it felt like i was in a harrington. it felt like a sunbeam seat. HEY! it is a harrington! trust me when i say there are several rebodied harringtons out there. i know where some of them are! i am the owner of three harringtons and i may even have one of them. i really don't care. i hope those of you that complain about rebodied cars never need an organ transplant. you would say no to that because it's not original! i hope the new owner takes care of this car and doesn't act like a two year old complaining about what someone else owns.this goes for all of the self appointed experts out there. some should give us all a break and buy another marque of car other than a sunbeam.
for those owners that have never done a full, bare metal restoration of a sunbeam it would be difficult to understand why some would rebody a car. it also would be difficult for some of you that have never seen this car to understand the quality of this car. i've set in the driver seat of this car and for some reason it felt like i was in a harrington. it felt like a sunbeam seat. HEY! it is a harrington! trust me when i say there are several rebodied harringtons out there. i know where some of them are! i am the owner of three harringtons and i may even have one of them. i really don't care. i hope those of you that complain about rebodied cars never need an organ transplant. you would say no to that because it's not original! i hope the new owner takes care of this car and doesn't act like a two year old complaining about what someone else owns.this goes for all of the self appointed experts out there. some should give us all a break and buy another marque of car other than a sunbeam.
Jay Laifman
Donation Time
Well, on the one hand, at least from my computer, I don't see any significant rust in the older pictures. Dirt, grime and bad paint. But, not significant rust. On the other hand, I do think it is pretty unlikely that between the pictures in Arizona where the lower left valence is missing to the pictures where the paint had been stripped off, that someone welded on a new lower valence. But, maybe.
Kudos to the seller for posting that whole Buyer Beware letter - which got a bit harsh.
As Michael says however, I love that car. It is closer to the Sebring car than any other car on earth, and even if not all of its parts flew around the track, some of them did! And of all the Harringtons in the world, short of Clive's with the fancy headlights, I'm not sure there is another I'd rather own. If I hadn't recently put a lot of time, money and fun into another car, I'd bid on it now - and agree that the price right now is a bargain - and hopefully it will go well above what I could have afforded anyway!
Interesting Weber manifold. I don't know that I've seen one that short before.
Kudos to the seller for posting that whole Buyer Beware letter - which got a bit harsh.
As Michael says however, I love that car. It is closer to the Sebring car than any other car on earth, and even if not all of its parts flew around the track, some of them did! And of all the Harringtons in the world, short of Clive's with the fancy headlights, I'm not sure there is another I'd rather own. If I hadn't recently put a lot of time, money and fun into another car, I'd bid on it now - and agree that the price right now is a bargain - and hopefully it will go well above what I could have afforded anyway!
Interesting Weber manifold. I don't know that I've seen one that short before.
Well said! Thank you.
GlennB
Silver Level Sponsor
We live in a world where E-Types, or XKe's to you, MGB's and Big Healeys are routinely rebodied. Personally that reduces the appeal to me, but the main point is one of concealment. If the vendor is honest about the goods then it is for the buyer to decide what aspects of the history go to make up the overall value he is prepared to pay. This is not a case of a faux Tiger. It is a sad truth that Alpines have been under-rated for so long that much of our important history disappeared during the years of dis-interest. so if this is what remains of the 62 Sebring car then let's celebrate it, but understand how it came to where we are now. It is worth good money for being a great car plus some extra for the history, even partial. As for the Harrington part, if there are only "x" Harrington roofs in existence then I don't really mind if we lose a good Alpine to keep it alive. (But not to conceal facts) As I said, other Marques do a lot worse. consider XKE's which have been destroyed in racing but which re-appear 10 years later. GB
65beam
Donation Time
ebay
maybe i should list on ebay an original lemans roof section that i have standing up in the corner of one of my garages. it's been there for about 20 years. i won't tell where it came from other than the state of maryland but it is an original piece with what is left of the headliner and all the windows and hardware. what's it worth??
maybe i should list on ebay an original lemans roof section that i have standing up in the corner of one of my garages. it's been there for about 20 years. i won't tell where it came from other than the state of maryland but it is an original piece with what is left of the headliner and all the windows and hardware. what's it worth??