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'And the Fun Begins!'

M

Mike Armstrong

Bronze Level Sponsor
Thanks guys, I appreciate it. It looks better in person and you fellas are welcome over anytime to take a look. I just hope one day to have it 'running and looking' as good as some of the examples I've seen here on this forum.

I was going to go straight to disassembling and stripping the car completely right off the bat but instead decided to see what I got. Since it turned out looking decent enough to drive I like the idea of getting all the mechanicals and modifications done before working on the cosmetics. One thing that may start to bug me though is that front end is just begging to be pulled back into shape. I've never done bodywork to that extent before but I'm going to start looking into it.

Mike
 
V

V6 JOSE

Donation Time
Hi Mike,

I recommend doing the conversion completely, to where it runs, then doing the body work. If you do the conversion first, you won´t run the risk of damaging the paint while you do the conversion. The other reason, is if you get to drive it before you do the restoration, you´ll have the incentive to get it running again more quickly. Just ask Kelly. Once you´ve driven it, you won´t want to do without it for very long.

Jose
 
Series6

Series6

Past President
Gold Level Sponsor
If it weren't for the valance damage, I wouldn't believe it was the same car. Nice job Mike. :D
 
M

Mike Armstrong

Bronze Level Sponsor
Good advice Jose. If I do anything to do with bodywork it would only be to straighten out that annoying front end, no painting though.

Thanks Nick. Since you've actually seen the car as it was in the before pics you can really appreciate the condition it's in now. Allot of work but I loved every minute of it:D

Oh, the other thing about buffing out and polishing your '' perfect find except for that one ding' project, is that all that shiny reveals every imperfection there is. I've got dents and dings in places I would have bet were completely straight. Great for knowing whats instore for bodywork, not so much though for how straight you thought your car was.
 
M

Mike Armstrong

Bronze Level Sponsor
Ok, the 2.8L V6 has been stripped. Since it reportedly came from a 1986 Ranger I removed the water pump, timing cover and pulleys. Also the cast iron headers and power steering pump (?), tranny, flywheel, pressure plate and clutch (geez, at least the oil pan is correct:D)

That left allot of smog/EPA hoses is the way which I also removed.

Does anybody know by looking at the pics what else constitutes useless smog stuff that I can can get out of the way? The seller said the carburetor is newer (also the starter, alternator and fuel pump) so if it doesn't look correct it may not be OEM stock.

https://picasaweb.google.com/105988...&authkey=Gv1sRgCJTO1b7pnZLZDQ&feat=directlink
 
260Alpine

260Alpine

Silver Level Sponsor
Mike, My kid had a 83 2.8 Ranger and we changed the carb(computer control). Use a regular non smog Holley 2 barrel. Ran great after that. We threw away the EGR and made a block off plate.
 
M

Mike Armstrong

Bronze Level Sponsor
260Alpine said:
Mike, My kid had a 83 2.8 Ranger and we changed the carb(computer control) and distributor. Use a regular non smog Holley 2 barrel and get a rebuilt Mustang II distributor. Ran great after that. Does the Ranger motor have the nylon tooth cam gear? If so I'd get a steel gear.
Click to expand...

Hi Jim.

"Does the Ranger motor have the nylon tooth cam gear?" Don't know to be honest with you. The internals are stock as far as I know so if it came with one then it's in there but I'll find out, thanks.
 
gordonra

gordonra

Donation Time
Mike Armstrong said:
Hi Jim.

"Does the Ranger motor have the nylon tooth cam gear?" Don't know to be honest with you. The internals are stock as far as I know so if it came with one then it's in there but I'll find out, thanks.
Click to expand...

My 74 Mustang engine has nylon gears, but I saved the metal gears from the Ranger engine.

Rich
 
M

Mike Armstrong

Bronze Level Sponsor
gordonra said:
My 74 Mustang engine has nylon gears, but I saved the metal gears from the Ranger engine.

Rich
Click to expand...

Hi Rich. So the earlier 2.8's had Nylon gears but the later ones used metal? If were talking about the gears visible when the timing cover is removed then they are definitely metal.
 
V

V6 JOSE

Donation Time
Whatever you do, change out the nylon toothed gear and put an aluminum one in it. The nylon toothed gear will seperate after about 60,000 miles and you´ll have fun removing the oil pan and front timing cover to clean out all the pieces. This gear is one of the few weak points of these engines. All the replacement gears that I´ve seen, are made of aluminum, which solves this potential problem.

I have never seen a stock engine come with anything but a nylon toothed gear in it. If you find an aluminum or steel timing gear in your engine, it has been changed at some point. Ford used the nylon toothed one to reduce the gear noise in the engine.

Jose
 
M

mferris

Donation Time
This would be something for one of the tech manuals. I was unaware of this potential issue.

I presume that my '78 MII (and '74 MII) both have the nylon gears but I didn't take off the cover to check. Given the state of my rebuild - I'm going to live with the existing gears. I'll take this gamble for now, not knowing if this is an interference engine or of a gear failure would ruin the engine .
 
V

V6 JOSE

Donation Time
Mike,

You are in luck, because these engines are not interference engines. The valves are not on an angle to the piston tops, but I would still replace the gears. It will not be any fun trying to replace them after the engine is in your Alpine.

It is so much easier to do it now. It will only take about 1 hour to change it now, rather than 3 or more when it is in the car.

Jose


mferris said:
This would be something for one of the tech manuals. I was unaware of this potential issue.

I presume that my '78 MII (and '74 MII) both have the nylon gears but I didn't take off the cover to check. Given the state of my rebuild - I'm going to live with the existing gears. I'll take this gamble for now, not knowing if this is an interference engine or of a gear failure would ruin the engine .
Click to expand...
 
M

Mike Armstrong

Bronze Level Sponsor
Yup, mine is definitely not stock. Both appear to be steel. Since that's the case, I wonder if this engine was rebuilt at one time? (newer carb, fuel pump, timing gear changed).

Are there tell tale signs that an engine has been rebuilt?

The metal gasket sandwiched between the two paper timing cover gaskets got slightly bent when I removed the cover. It's easy to find new paper timing cover gaskets sets.

https://picasaweb.google.com/105988...authkey=Gv1sRgCKXYxM-anY65pQE&feat=directlink

Do I need to remove the cam gear (top larger one) to remove the metal gasket and straighten it out? If it looks like it should be replaced is it as easy to replace as the paper ones?

Where are you guys ordering your V6 engine gaskets from?

I'll drop the pan today and clean it out. I think I remember reading something here about moving the dipstick.

Is my dipstick already in the proper location for the Conversion?
 
V

V6 JOSE

Donation Time
Hi Mike,

Both your gears are stock ones. The inner part of the stock gear is made of cast steel, but the weak point on these gears, is the nylon teeth on the outside. Take a good look at the gear and you´ll notive it is in two pàrts. These nylon teeth will break after time, so changing them is highly recommended.

I recommend taking hold of the toothed part and try to push it to one side of the center. You will see that it moves, and you don´t want that.

You will see that you need to remove the cam gear in order to femove the tin plate that fits against the block. It has at least two bolts that hold it on. I recommend putting the paper gasket on dry. I recommend buying a set of Fel Pro gaskets for your engine. I think they are the best.

The gears have not been changed on this engine.

Jose


Mike Armstrong said:
Yup, mine is definitely not stock. Both appear to be steel. Since that's the case, I wonder if this engine was rebuilt at one time? (newer carb, fuel pump, timing gear changed).

Are there tell tale signs that an engine has been rebuilt?

The metal gasket sandwiched between the two paper timing cover gaskets got slightly bent when I removed the cover. It's easy to find new paper timing cover gaskets sets.

https://picasaweb.google.com/105988...authkey=Gv1sRgCKXYxM-anY65pQE&feat=directlink

Do I need to remove the cam gear (top larger one) to remove the metal gasket and straighten it out? If it looks like it should be replaced is it as easy to replace as the paper ones?

Where are you guys ordering your V6 engine gaskets from?

I'll drop the pan today and clean it out. I think I remember reading something here about moving the dipstick.

Is my dipstick already in the proper location for the Conversion?
Click to expand...
 
M

Mike Armstrong

Bronze Level Sponsor
Thanks Jose.

Ahh, I see now that the cam gear is indeed in two parts. I can't for the life of me get any of those those teeth to move and when tapped with a metal tool it gives off a dull 'ping' kinda like metal. But, a magnet won't stick to it and to see if it's ally I scrapped away what I thought was a coating of gunk but it never showed a shiny metal that I would have expected ally to look like, only brown material, not white like I thought nylon would look like so the outer ring on the cam gear must be nylon as you said.

Replacing the cam gear with metal before it fails is definitely the kind of info that needs to be in the Darkside Technical Section.

I'll stick with Fel Pro gaskets.
 
S

SoCalpine

Donation Time
Mike Armstrong said:
Replacing the cam gear with metal before it fails is definitely the kind of info that needs to be in the Darkside Technical Section.
Click to expand...

I'm already on it on it. I used your photo with Jose's quote about the nylon gears. Now I'm waiting on a photo of the replacement gears, maybe a part number etc.
 
M

Mike Armstrong

Bronze Level Sponsor
SoCalpine said:
I'm already on it on it. I used your photo with Jose's quote about the nylon gears. Now I'm waiting on a photo of the replacement gears, maybe a part number etc.
Click to expand...

Nice John, I'm glad to help in any way.

As a rookie to all this I would have bet money on that being a 'one piece', 'metal' cam gear.

A short 'to-do' list of what should be done before buttoning up the engine and installing it in the car as it applies to earlier vs late engines or both would be great. It's probably all in the archives somewhere but I know myself that I wouldn't have known to do a Search for nylon gears.
 
V

V6 JOSE

Donation Time
Hi John,

You can get the replacement gears from an parts store. If you want to be able to source it for sure, I´d go to a NAPA store. I don´t have a part number for them, but they will know what you are talking about.

Jose


SoCalpine said:
I'm already on it on it. I used your photo with Jose's quote about the nylon gears. Now I'm waiting on a photo of the replacement gears, maybe a part number etc.
Click to expand...
 
S

SoCalpine

Donation Time
I'm sure someone has a picture of the right gears installed on a motor....

I ordered mine from Summit/Jegs. It was a COMP product as I remember.
 
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